Reddit mentions: The best running & jogging books

Most importantly Listen to your body. I can promise you that you are pushing yourself hard enough but you may also be pushing yourself too hard. Here's some advice to improving your 5k times since you asked:

• try to run every day. Get used to running as many days that are possible but remember to slow down and not push yourself too hard so that you exhaust your legs. This is building an aerobic base which you will be extremely grateful for when you start working on your anaerobic workouts (hill workouts, intervals etc.). If you have a hard time running a set distance in miles (I do) just do a set amount of time (20 min, 30 min) and don't give a hoot about your pace just listen to your body and how you feel. This game is about gradualism and there is no shame in going slow.
  
  
• Rest days are necessary if you think they are necessary! You are the big kahuna in your training program!
  
  
• Be careful not to burn yourself out. There is a thing called pushing yourself too hard and everybody can do it no matter the fitness level. Typically though (and I can say this because I have fallen into this trap) it's people who don't want to accept their current fitness level. You may be a 10:00 miler but think you're a 9:00 miler but you won't improve until you accept your current fitness state. Be honest with how you feel and you will notice improvements within a couple weeks.
  
  
• No smoking. Weed/cigarrettes/whatever. Smoking damages your lungs which decreases your cardiac efficiency. If you like the herb though invest in a vaporizer. Your body will thank you. Other substances like alcohol or harder stuff which I won't mention will stress your body out so be mindful of your indulgences.
  
  
• Control your breathing. I used yogic breathing excercises such a as pranayama to get control of my diaphram. The amount of air you can intake is proportional to your cardiac efficiency. The burn you feel in your legs when you sprint is from lactic acid build up due to lack of oxygen (because your cardio [oxygen intake for your muscles] can't keep up with your muscle contractions, this is how you burn yourself out, aka acidosis) learn to read your body and how fast you can go comfortably for a set distance. "i can run 3 miles at an 8:00 pace if I push myself. At the end of my run my heart rate is 33 beats per 10 seconds so that's about 198 BPM"
  
  
• Improving cardio fitness is all about your heart rate efficiency. In the beginning of accruing a large enough aerobic base, let's say 40-50 miles a week (this depends on how serious you want to be can be less but the larger the base, generally, the faster you can go think of a pyramid /\), be mindful of your heart rate and check it at the end of each run. This will help you later and is just fun to guess when you track it enough. Personally and from the advice of my cross country coaches it's best to get your base in before you do things like hill workouts or intervals.
  
  
• During your aerobic base period make sure to change tempo and distance (within reason). Vary it up and do days at faster pace for less distance and days at a slower pace for longer distances. Keep your heart guessing and it will respond and improve
  
  
• stride outs at the end of a run are very useful to get your form down and to get that heart rate raised. this is not a sprint ( I do like 4 - 8 40 meter lengths at 75% with a recovery jog in between)
  
  
• NUTRITION IS SO IMPORTANT. Carbs are your friends! Simple sugars before you run and after you run ( I like to have a few dates before a run and a nice slice of watermelon after [it's just the best on a hot day]). Simple sugars before hand so you have easy to burn energy for your run and simple sugars after your run so can accelerate the recovery for your muscles (sugars clean out lactic acid buildup from your run and this decreases your recovery time from your runs) and of course within an hour or two after your run make sure to get a nutritious meal with a good source of protein.
  
  
• Okay I have mislead you. The most important thing is to enjoy yourself! If your runs are a chore you are less likely to continue and less likely to improve your times! I use it as a release. There's a saying that goes something like, "Running; It's cheaper than therapy."
  
  Resources:
  Healthy Intelligent Training guidelines from an olympic caliber coach Arthur Lydiard I reccommend this book, though it doesnt' give you a training schedule it explains how to, most efficiently, improve your times and achieve your running goals no matter the distance
  
  How to Use Fitness to Create Mental and Physical Strength for Life - Brendan Brazier is pretty great. The thrive in 30 series is easily digestible and full of fantastic information for the athlete within
  
  What is VO2 max? nice summation of the physiology of high performance excercise
  
  Metabolic acidosis lecture (Warning! Techincal!)
  
  Natural running form
  
  
  I hope this post can give you something to take away! Though I have given you information that you may feel is beyond where you want to go these principles will help you achieve whatever your goal is in the quickest and most efficient manner. Don't be intimidated this is all about fun and challenging yourself in a healthy way!

You may find this book useful. Or you can do some research here, here, or here.

Here are some hikes that fit what you're looking for. I'm going to assume "mild" elevation means under 1500 feet of gain.

• Bodenburg Butte (Palmer) – 3 miles total, 900 feet of elevation. Popular short, easy hike, offers nice views of the valley and mountains. Can be done as a traverse or there-and-back. Either way is fine.
  
• Thunderbird Falls (Eagle River) – 2 miles RT, 200 feet of elevation. Pretty easy hike. No mountain vistas, but a quaint waterfall at the end
  
• Eagle River Nature Center (Eagle River) – Large network of trails with low elevation gain. Anything from half-mile loops to multi-day hikes. Mostly through spruce and birch forest, with some great mountain views thrown in. If you’re here, at least do the Rodak Trail.
  
• Baldy (Eagle River) – 3 miles RT, maybe 1000 feet of elevation. Popular hike, but not as well-traveled as Flattop, although it’s easier with similar views.
  
• Flattop (Anchorage) – 3 miles RT, 1200 feet of elevation. Most popular hike in Anchorage. The last section is one step shy of rock climbing. I find the rock scramble a little frightening, but lots of non-hikers do it.
  
• Rendezvous Peak (Anchorage) – 3.5 miles RT, 1500 feet of elevation. Popular hike, but you’re probably better picking Flattop or Wolverine if you’re looking for something in the area.
  
• Tony Knowles Coastal Trail (Anchorage) –No elevation. Easy, paved multi-use trail. It’s a nice place for a stroll. Nice views, easy to get to. Just walk as far as you want and backtrack, assuming you won’t do the 11-mile planet walk.
  
• Winner Creek (Girdwood) – About 5.5 miles to the hand tram and back from Alyeska Resort. 250 feet of elevation. Fairly easy. No mountain vistas, but a nice stream, and a fun hand-tram. Can be done as a traverse (if you get a ride at the other end near Crow Creek), or backtrack after doing the hand tram. If 5.5 miles is too far, start at Crow Creek Mine, and just walk to the hand-tram and back.
  
• Byron Glacier (Girdwood) – About 3 miles round-trip. Very little elevation change. Fairly easy. Good views of a mountain valley and Byron Glacier.
  
• Portage Pass (Whittier) – 2 miles RT to saddle, 4 RT to lake. 600 feet of elevation to saddle, plus another 700 feet if you go down to the lake. If you’re into Whittier and enjoy hiking, at least hike up to the top of the saddle on Portage Pass for views of Prince William Sound and Portage Glacier. Hike all the way to the lake if it looks enjoyable and you have time.
  

Some suggestions for things you can do in Toronto to prepare:

• Buy the book Mountaineering: The Freedom of the Hills which will give you a basic understanding of the skills, gear, and systems used in the mountains, including a lot of the lingo you'll hear.
  
  
• Buy the book Training for the Uphill Athlete which will give you a good understanding of how to train for the mountains. They also have an older book Training for the New Alpinism, but it has a slight bias towards technical climbing. Both are very similar and both would teach you what you need to know. The stick figure version is do a LOT of very easy trail running (slow enough to converse in full sentences) and work on general strength (lots of core work). Gradually increase the amount you are doing and then start to mix in things like carrying a heavy pack up a steep hike or stairs in the months leading up to your climb. Their website uphillathlete.com has a lot of good info, and premade training plans if you just want to drop $50 and be told what to do.
  
  
• Train lots based on the above.
  
  
• Get really good at backpacking. You'll want to be very comfortable doing an overnight trip with minimal gear. This isn't strictly necessary since some routes can be done car-to-car, but many mountains will involve at least one night camping on the mountain so being good at overnight backpacking trips will really open up a lot more options.
  
  Once you are "mountain fit" and have the basic book learning done, there are a couple of ways to actually get on to a mountain. One way is to take a multi-day course offered by a guiding company that includes an ascent of a mountain. This will cost in the ball park of $1000 for the course itself, plus travel to get to the mountain. This teaches you many of the skills you need and gets you onto big routes quickly, but costs more.
  
  The other way to is learn the basic skills of crampon usage, self belay, self arrest, camping in the snow, etc. by finding people willing to show you. A common source of those people are climbing clubs (the Mountaineers in Seattle, Mountain Ascent Association in California, I'm sure there are plenty in Canada). This also gives you a way to meet people to climb mountains with in the future. You could also take a 1-2 day skills course from a guide company, these will generally be cheaper (~$200-400) but probably won't involve a summit climb and you'll still have to figure out how to find people to climb mountains with in the future. Then once you have those basic skills you start small and easy and build up your skillset yourself over multiple trips to the mountains. This takes way longer to get to big impressive mountains, but many people get more satisfaction out of climbing a mountain if they aren't relying on a guide to get them there safely. You could probably do a lot of this early learning in the Whites as mentioned elsewhere in this thread before moving on to the ranges with bigger routes.
  
  One thing I like to do is pick a goal mountain that you really want to do. I personally love climbing climbing the Cascade volcanos so my first goal mountain was Mt. Rainier. Lots of stuff in the Rockies, both in the US and Canada, the Sierra in California, Coastal range in Canada. Just find a mountain that inspires you. Hard to give recommendations since there are just so many options if you include all of the US and Canada and its largely personal preference of what you are looking for.
  
  If going with the first option of taking a mountaineering course, often you can find one that includes your goal mountain and you are done, move on to a bigger goal mountain. :)
  
  If going the second route, research the common/easiest route up that mountain and see what skills you need to climb it. Then find some routes that teach you the skills you need but don't have but are still within your comfort level and go climb them. Rinse and repeat. I think the hardest part here is finding people that are just a little more advanced than you are to do these routes with and learn from them. As you do more climbs your network of people to climb with will grow.

Welcome to the sub. Wow lots of questions here.

First off the part you're going to most want to change is the lack of runs during the week. The more time on your feet, the easier a marathon will be. That said xtraining is very helpful (especially if you're injury prone) but just not as useful as actual running.

Hanson's is a solid plan, especially if you know the time you'd like to run the marathon in, and it's a reasonable goal. Other common plans that people have a lot of success with are:

• Hal Higdon (variety) -- these are mostly used for just finishing, rather than really racing or excelling at the marathon distance. If you're past that point I prefer the other available plans to his advanced stuff
  
• Fitzgerald 80-20 -- This is based on the latest science and training that elites are using but has 3 levels of plans based on how much time you want to run per week. It also encourages the use of a heart rate monitor for some runs.
  
• Pfitzinger Advanced Marathoning People get results on these, but they are hard and the lowest mileage plan runs 5 days a week and peaks with a 55 mile week (88km). This is probably not for you but does a good job explaining the physiological reasons for various training.
  
• Jack Daniel's Running Formula -- a great book for all distances and all plans can be scaled based on how much you run per week.
  
• FIRST aka runn less, run faster. This is a controversial plan but the crux of it is you run 3 quality runs per week (1 speed day, 1 long day, 1 LT day) and you crosstrain hard the other days. I haven't heard of people really improving from a good result to a great result with this, but among beginning runners it certainly seems to yield good results and it seems tailor made for triathletes.
  
  
  
  The most generic Best practices are:
  
• Consistent training over time trumps everything else (i.e. deal with those injuries early).
  
• More miles > less miles up until an absurd point or when it gets you injured
  
• Long runs are important
  
• do some speed work but not too much (80% easy miles, 20% hard)
  
  Also try reading the Order of Operations in the sidebar.

>I see the whole run 15 min, then 30, 45 plan you have written out. I suppose that could work, I just have a different view I guess.

Arthur Lydiard's view on training > than your view on training

>The more all around fit you are (having tone in your arms, hips, quads, strong core) makes your body use it's energy more efficiently

Those things are all second to having a strong aerobic base.
Running lots of miles will make you use your energy more efficiently.

From Keith Livingstone's book Health Intelligent Training.
>The purpose of this phase was to systematically build the aerobic capacity to the highest level possible before commencing faster work. The biggest stimulus to the development of aerobic capacity is often uninterrupted time spent at higher aerobic or sub-threshold levels: especially with regard to the development of the very fine blood vessels in the running muscles (the capillary beds) and the muscular walls of the heart itself.

>While it's an established fact these days that repeated intense exercise bouts well over the level of the anaerobic threshold can stimulate "growth factors" in capillaries supplying skeletal muscle, (as long as sufficient recovery time is allowed between intense exercise bouts) it's also an established fact that the prolonged "acidosis" and muscle trauma that accompanies such exercise can be detrimental.

>More recovery time is required that could otherwise have been spent doing productive aerobic training, without such "down time." Even mild acidosis has been shown to disrupt the body's aerobic and anaerobic energy systems, the nervous system, and the function of cells. Training too intensely is like playing with fire. Aerobic training is safe and predictable. There is certainly a place for more intense work, later, when the time is right.

>...The trick was to do as much strong aerobic running as possible while improving week by week but not so much that general fatigue would result. Lydiard found that the best way to balance the weekly schedule was by varying the distances and efforts so the the athlete was always able to absorb the training and come back for more. The axiom here was Train, don't strain.

>...The running muscles would greatly increase their capillarization, their mitochondrial density, and their levels of oxidative enzymes. The maximal oxygen uptake and the anaerobic threshold would be pushed up as high as possible in the given time, without being pulled down by anaerobic running.

>The body would utilize more fats as fuel, sparing carbohydrates, and excess body fat would drop away, leaving the runner as a lean, mean, running machine.

Now I'm not trying to say that you should just neglect all around conditioning but running is the best way to get better at running.

>having tone in your arms

Tell that to Murray Halberg, a rugby injury left his left arm crippled but he was still able to win a gold medal at the Olympics in the 5000.

>Your comment on the cross training saying it is better than nothing...I take it further and say cross training 2-3 days per week and running 4-5 is better than running 7.

If someone can already run 7 days a week like wazoot is already doing, then it is better to continue running 7 days a week as long as you are smart about it and run easily when you have to, you will see much more improvement from running more. Everyone needs a day or two off of running every once in a while and doing some kind of cross training(I go biking) on those days is better than sitting on the couch and eating potato chips.

Jack Daniels in Daniels' Running Formula on why easy running is benifitial:

> Easy running does a good job of developing the heart muscle, since the maximum force of each stroke of the heart is reached when the heart rate is 60 percent of maximum. As you run faster, the heart rate and the amount of blood pumped with each heartbeat (referred to as stroke volume) increases minimally. So fairly easy running is a good developer of the heart muscle, and although it doesn't feel as if you are working very hard, your heart is.

> Another benefit of Easy running is an increase in vascularization (opening of more tiny blood vessels that feed the exercising muscles) and the development of characteristics of the muscles themselves that are involved in running. Even during easy running, your heart id developing a good amount of blood and oxygen to the exercising muscles, and these muscles respond by making changes in the muscle fibers that allow the muscles to accept more oxygen and convert more fuel into energy in a given period. In fact, many of the benefits gained as a result of this process are a function of time spent stressing the muscle fibers. You will no doubt spend more time accomplishing this goal by running easily because it is easier to last longer at a comfortable pace than it is at a hard pace.

I ran a 4:36 as a high school athlete. I'm training to run a sub 5:00 minute mile again as a 40 year old. I'm not an expert by any means, but I am attempting to do what you're doing (and have done it in the past.) Here's my take:

> would love opinions on the estimation of time from 6 to 5 based on my situation

A 6:00 minute mile is roughly a VDOT of 48. A sub 5:00 mile is roughly a VDOT 60. A rough rule of thumb is a VDOT point every 6 weeks. So you're looking at committing to this goal for a little less than a year and a half, if you're average. More if your train suboptimally, you are older, or not particularly gifted at running. Less if the opposite of those things are true. Understand that this is a rule of thumb, and it will vary wildly from person to person.

Understand also: a 5:00 mile is SIGNIFICANTLY faster than a 6:00 mile. The difference between a 9:00 and a 6:00 is pretty big too - however, progress from 9:00->6:00 is not uncommon -- 6:00 is just a hair beyond a truly novice time for a healthy male. Perhaps you had prior conditioning that came back quickly, like if you were a soccer/football player, but had spent a few months being sedentary. If that's the case, you may find 6:00->5:00 substantially harder. Or, perhaps not, and running is just your thing - if it's the later you may get to sub 5:00 quicker with really hard work.

If you look at male high school runners, most athletes probably won't break 5:00 until the end of their second year of both cross country and track. However, it's not uncommon for a really gifted freshmen to break 5:00 after only a few months of quality training.

> But if I keep it up improving with runs 3 times a week, how long would you estimate that I hit 5 min?

Here's a blunt answer: possibly never. Not while running 3x and a few km a week, and not with a home grown training method.

I'd suggest if you want to achieve your goal you need to be following a real mile training program. That will involve at least 30 MPW (~50km), with a frequency of at least 6 days. There are a number of problems with what you have planned, but the biggest I see is the lack of lots of easy mileage. That lack of the base mileage has two issues: 1) you won't be doing enough for your aerobic conditioning (and racing the mile still relies predominantly on your aerobic capacity), and 2) the lack of a base in conjunction with a lot of higher intensity running is a recipe for injury. No matter how talented or hard working you are, you won't hit your goal if you are constantly fighting off stress fractures and tendinitis.

I won't say it's impossible to hit your goal the way you're approaching it, again, maybe you're a gifted runner with terrific balance who can train like that, avoid injury, and make progress. Of this I'm certain though: no matter how gifted you are, you will make much quicker progress following a mile training program than you will with your home grown plan.

My recommendation would be that you get yourself a copy of Jack Daniel's running formula. It's pretty much the bible for middle distance training as far as most HS and college coaches are concerned, and there is several great mile training programs in there. If you want to get an idea for what the program looks like I'd be happy to rip you a few pages of the 30 MPW program, though either way the entire book is worth reading.

I hope that helps, good luck!

For shoes, you need to go to a real running shoe store. They will analyze your gait, and show you the type of shoes you need. They should give you a handful of the "right" (for you) shoes to try on, and let you spend some time on a treadmill in each pair, allowing you to ask plenty of questions. The shoes should be pretty big, since over a long run your feet will swell. You should at least be able to press your thumb (width) between your toes and the end of the shoes.

Regarding stretching, there ARE a lot of schools of thought out there. I am sort of lazy about stretching beforehand, but I recommend doing dynamic stretches (not the static kind) ... marching in place, jumping jacks, body twists, things like that.

I also recommend (strongly) stretching afterwards ~ these can be static.

For your first marathon, I can't recommend strongly enough this book. I used it, and know at least 5 others who did, as well. Every single person finished their first marathon injury-free.

If you DON'T get the book, the rules I consider to be unbreakable are:

• good shoes
  
  
• excellent hydration
  
  
• good nutrition
  
  
• good recovery (rest or do light cross-training the day after a long run. Refuel. Rehydrate. Start getting a good night's sleep if you don't already.)
  
  
• FLEXIBILITY (in terms of your schedule. If you are "supposed" to run, but sick or more sore than just achy, then wait a day. No point in setting yourself up for injury. Also, if you are supposed to run, say, 12 miles, and you start, and then halfway through you are out of water and it's 90 degrees out, then STOP. Don't be an idiot in your training.)
  
  Breakable rules, but still good to follow:
  
  
• train your brain. Mantras, positive thinking, etc., are great
  
  
• learn what works for your GI system. Don't change anything on race day, and only make small tweaks throughout your training.
  
  
• practice hydrating with whatever they will provide on the course.
  
  
• try to find a friend or group to run with, at least sometimes.
  
  
  Good luck and have fun :)

In reference to your edit, I think a great beginner/intermediate running training book is Jack Daniel's Running Formula. Some stuff in it may already be familiar to you, but if you want to know enough about running training to plan/understand your own workouts (which I assume you do as a former good cyclist) it's a really good start.

I'm not going to go too indepth on training (that's what the book is for, plus I wouldn't even make a dent in really talking about training) but I will make a few points just from what you've said here.

> I've been doing around 3 miles a day for the past two weeks and can usually hold an 8 min pace for a 5k effort. My heart rate is through the rough and it doesn't seem like it is going to get any easier.

Slow down. I know, it's going to be a blow to the ego, but running is a fairly specific activity and it's going to take some time for your body to adjust. You'll still see improvements without grinding every single run. The good news is with your background, you should see quick improvement as your running economy begins to improve, as a lot of the cardiovascular base is already there. This will be a nice change after being elite at cycling (where so much work is required for even a minuscule improvement). If you want to go fast, set specific workout days, and even those should have an easy warmup and cooldown.

>rack up some serious mileage in the future months/years to come.

Just a warning to not do too much, too fast. A huge difference between running and cycling is the amount of wear that the impact of running can put on your body. Slowly ramp up your mileage over time, giving the joints and tendons time to adapt, or else you'll end up hurt (like me....). It's tempting to pour yourself into this new sport with as much intensity as you put into cycling, but you can't be running 100+ km weeks right off the bat.

>been doing around 3 miles a day for the past two weeks

I'd take a rest day once a week. Maybe go for a swim or bike on Sunday's instead. Even when I was running 8 times/week I still took Fridays completely off.

Feel free to ask if you've got any other questions I can try to help with!

The New Rules of Marathon and Half Marathon Nutrition by Matt Fitzgerald is a good book that talks mainly about nutrition. Some people say it was written as a marketing ploy by Matt Fitzgerald, however there's still some great info in there about nutrition for training and race day.

Advanced Marathoning by Pete Pfitzinger is also a great resource for all things training. Ignore the training plans in the back as they're likely too advanced for your first marathon, but the rest of the book has amazing information about physiology, cross-training, recovery, nutrition, types of workouts... Highly recommend. Then, if you get to a point where you want to take your marathoning to the next level, you'll have some great plans to work off.

Another great online resource is fellrnr.com (i've linked you straight to the marathon section) -- this guys has compiled A LOT of data if you're a data nerd, and there's also a lot of good info in there.

Just a note on using different resources -- you'll see that sometimes they can contradict each other. For example, Matt's book and fellrnr both speak to the benefits of fat loading during your pre-race carb load phase, but Pfitz's book writes this off as not necessary. This is normal, and don't get too caught up in what's right and what's not. The point is that everyones different, and you need to find what works for you.

This sub-reddit is also a great trove of information, with many people willing to answer specific questions about anything running related, so never hesitate to ask!

Good luck with your training and race!

I definitely think you can get it or come pretty close. You clearly have some solid natural talent and those lifetime miles always help, even if its been a while. Plus the fact that you haven't put on weight helps too.

I think it depends on what type of training you respond to best, but from reading Daniels and Pfitz books recently, there are sort of the 4 types of training that are important for the 5K. Easy aerobic runs/long runs, tempo(about what you could run for an hour or so), interval/V02 max(3k-5k pace) and repetition/speed(about mile pace or so). I think tempo and V02 are more important than the speed in the 5k so those should be the focus.

For a 5k time of 17:00 you want to be hitting tempo workouts around 5:54. Things like 4-6x1 mile with 1 min rest, 2-3x2 mile with 2 min rest, or a 4 mile tempo run. For the V02 stuff you want to be at around 5:25 mile pace or 2:42 800 pace. Workouts like 8x800 with 2 minutes jog. 6x1000 with 2-3 min jog. 5x1200 with 3 min jog. The shorter faster stuff is around mile pace. so 75 and under for 400 or 37 and under for 200. Workouts like 200 repeats with 200 jog or 400 repeats with 400 jog.

Maybe try to do any two of those workouts each week and a long run and you can get there I think. One week do a tempo workout and speed. Then the next week V02 and tempo. The week after V02 and speed. Try to get all those systems working. I would say try to make sure you can get your long run up to 10-13 miles or so.

These are what you should be running for a 17 min 5K, so its fine that you work into it. If it means slower pace or less reps, cool. These are just some benchmarks that to shoot for as you get closer to the race. Obviously if you can't handle the 2 quality sessions and a long run right now, back off a little and stick to the tempo and V02 stuff once a week and alternate them maybe. You can always do strides after runs or 200s after tempo workouts to keep some turnover going.

Do yourself a favor and pick up a book if you are serious about it so you can understand why you are doing these workouts instead of listening to me on the internet haha.

http://www.amazon.com/Daniels-Running-Formula-3rd-Edition-Jack/dp/1450431836

http://www.amazon.com/Faster-Road-Racing-Half-Marathon/dp/1450470459/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1456842179&sr=1-1&keywords=pete+pfitzinger

Good luck. Keep us posted.

I'm a bit rusty on the science and don't have my trusty copy of Advanced Marathoning with me but I'll give it a shot!

>But what's the point of that mileage? I prob don't reach the fat >burning (over glycogen) point that I would from a long run
>(17+miler).

Becoming more efficient at burning fat can be important but it's not the purpose of most your long runs because if all goes well, you shouldn't have to burn fat in the marathon.

Really, marathon training is getting your body storing as much glycogen as possible while burning it at efficiently as possible. That's because when you run out you start burning fat (requiring a lot more O2) and you hit the wall.

>It's also not helping with speed.

Real speed work is barely featured in marathon training. In the last couple of weeks leading up to the marathon you'll see some 400s etc as a sharpening workout but otherwise it's pretty useless because you'll never see it i the race. Longer intervals like mile repeats, 2 mi, 5k are useful to improve aerobic efficiency. I'll usually do one workout a week like this.

>And intuitively, I would think that taking a day off would be better for >recovery than doing a short and easy run.

>Wouldn't I run better/smarter if I prioritized each of my workouts (my >long runs, intervals, tempo) and gave it 100% rather than struggle to >complete them b/c of fatigue for instance?

Ah but marathon training is about running when you're not fully recovered. How else do you teach your body to recover more quickly? How else do you encourage it to store more glycogen and use it more efficiently? How else do you learn to run on tired legs? Don't take me wrong, you shouldn't be struggling to complete them but you shouldn't feel fresh either.

edit: Check out the weekly marathon training thread over at LetsRun to see what type of training people are doing. You'll see guys who are OT qualifiers and others who are like you shooting for Boston. Pay attention to the easy mileage they're running compared to the workouts.

I'm not an expert on 5K plans, but generally speaking, I like running 5-6 days a week, with 1 workout day, and 1 long run day. The rest are easy runs. For my schedule, I do workouts on Tuesday and long runs on Friday, but you should find what works for your schedule. So you don't want to suddenly increase to 5-6 days, but see about adding one easy day to what you're doing already. Make sure the effort is easy and I'd probably start it shorter than your normal runs. Sustain that for a few weeks and make sure you're doing ok, and if so, then either add another day (if needed), or start adding a little mileage on your easy days.

I saw someone say the other day that there are three key areas to think about when increasing your training...total volume, speed, and number of running days. At most, only increase one of those things each week as you build up. And feel free to hold for an extra week if you don't feel you're ready for another increase.

If you really want to get better answers and structured plans, I'd look into getting this book

Holy moly, 30 pounds since February is awesome!! That is absolutely awesome and I look forward to hearing about your continued success!

I hear you on meditation. Perhaps not meditation per say, but a few months ago my girlfriend convinced me to go to bikram yoga and I found it to be tremendously helpful for all the fitness stuff. Not really because of anything physical as much as the mental fortitude and discipline it requires. I actually REALLY enjoyed how the meditation/introspection of those sessions trickled into my every day.

Honestly, my view on running is that it is 80% mental. I remember training for my first half marathon, someone told me "if you can run 6 miles, you can do a half marathon" which sounded insane to me. But I think they were absolutely right-- those remaining miles are a mental hurdle far more than a physical one. Right now I am training for the NYC marathon and honestly most of my training is on regulating my attitude while working out. I know you're doing the 5k program, but you may enjoy the meditative aspects of the book I am using to train-- The Non Runners Marathon Trainer. It's ALL about how to approach running from a meditative, psychological standpoint. While the physical program is for a marathon, the mental training program is (I think) 100% applicable to anyone who slips on their sneakers and hits the pavement :)

The purpose of long runs is to build mitochondria and capillary beds. This takes time. You won't see immediate results. How long have you been running and how long are your slow runs?

A general rule of thumb is that 80% of your running should be at a slow pace. But this rule applies to runners who have built up their base mileage. You need to go base to square 1 and continue building base mileage by strictly running easy runs. Probably your 10 min per mile pace, but as long as it is in heart rate zone 2 (aerobic) or lower, you're good. These easy runs are critically important for building aerobic capacity and strengthening your skeletal system (including tendons/ligaments/joints). If you skip this base building phase, your risk of injury can be dramatically higher. All new runners should be running all of their runs at an easy pace. I can't stress to you how important this is. If you want to get faster or be a lifelong runner, the month or two this will take is a drop in the bucket in terms of time.

Speed work during this base building phase can be done as strides. Add them into your easy runs once or twice per week. Strides are 15-20 second bouts that are run at mile pace. They are NOT sprints. You won't be running on the balls of your feet. After each stride, you'll recover over the course of 90-120 seconds. Long enough that your heart rate settles. Then you can start the next one. Do the strides at the end of your easy run. Start with 5 strides once per week. You can begin increasing the number and frequency that you do them each week. These will help improve your running economy and get your body accustomed to running at faster paces.

You can safely add 10% more miles each week. Get your mileage up to 25 miles per week for a couple weeks, then you can begin doing other speed work like intervals and repetitions.

I'm speaking to you as someone who followed these rules to a T since May of this year. When I started in May I was slow. Frustratingly slow. But I stuck with the plan and got my miles up. Then I added speed work. Here's my progression since May.




Month | Mileage | Avg Pace (min/mi)
-----|--------|--------
May | 24| 11:18
June | 51| 11:02
Jul | 91| 10:22
Aug | 119| 9:44
Sept | 162| 9:43
Oct | 103| 9:01

Note that the average pace listed is the average for all miles run during that month. I just ran a 5k over the weekend in 19:46 (6:22 min/mile). I'm not young either, 36.

Be patient. Slowly add miles. Train smartly and you won't get injured.

If you want a book to follow, get Daniels' Running Formula. He lays everything out that you need to do. Once you get your base mileage down, he has speed workouts in there that will kick your ass and make you faster.

There are a few ways to determine it.

Personally I go by heart rate, using a chest strap (the wrist based are too inaccurate to rely on IMO). Once you do a max heart rate test, you can use that to set zones 1 (easy) through 5 (hard). Zone 1 is too easy to really be used much except for recovery runs. Zone 2 is where I do the bulk of my training. It's a somewhat easy, conversational pace. For me this works well because I like to run on trails most of the time, and pace will vary depending on hills, sand, grass, rocks, etc. This way I can run off effort rather than a specified pace. My Z2 trail pace ends up averaging around 10-11 min/mile, even through my road 5k pace is 7 min/mile. On the road, my Z2 pace is around 9:30 min/mile. Z3 doesn't get used too much. Z4 is a threshold/tempo or other "comfortably hard" effort. Z5 I really only hit during intervals or a 5k where I'm going all out.

The other way would be off pace, if most of your running is done on relatively flat roads. Jack Daniels VDOT calculator gives some estimates of training paces. Based on your most recent 24 min 5k, assuming that was pretty much all out:

Easy: 9:48-10:46 (bulk of miles)

Workout paces:

Marathon: 8:44 (can be used for long run efforts)

Threshold (5-15min efforts): 8:10

Intervals (3-5min efforts): 7:31

Reps (1-2 in efforts): 7:07

Notice the big gap between easy runs (9:48) and the start of the workout paces (8:44). Between that are sort of "junk miles" and because they aren't targeting any system in particular, they don't increase fitness as well as other paces.

Keep in mind, these numbers are going to change pretty fast as you increase your race performances.

Lots of great books out there on running, and most tend to follow the same general approach, with the small details being the difference.

Matt Fitzgerald 80/20 - a good primer on why slower running mixed with hard efforts can work really well https://www.amazon.com/dp/0451470885

Jack Daniels - A much more specific book on figuring out a good training plan. https://www.amazon.com/dp/1450431836

I was in a similar position four years ago. For some things I regretted not going lighter, for other things I regretted not getting something more durable and functional. But for the most part I was and am happy with my gear.

Some random tips I wish I knew 4 years ago.

• Get a quilt slightly warmer and wider than you think you'll need. It's better to have a quilt too warm than a mummy that's too warm. Mummy's don't ventilate well and are really meant for Winter use.
  
• Get a good sleeping pad to go with that with atleast an R-value or 2-3. Heavy and reliable is better than light but fragile for this one.
  
  
• Get a Tarptent with bug netting and side entry. Their Products Page is super useful in helping you find what you need.
  
  
• Get some MSR groundhog knock-offs and extra long guy-line. You can pound groundhogs in with a rock or use the extra long guy-lines to tie off to trees or boulders.
  
  
• Get some cheap but light carbon fiber trekking poles. Lots of recommendations in this Sub.
  
  
• Dig some water bottles out of the recycling bin to re-use. Aquamira Droplets are what I use, but Sawyer & Katadyne water filters have gained a lot of popularity.
  
  
• Comfort is king for trail runners. Durability, tread, and other features are secondary.
  
  
• Goldtoe 100% nylon dress socks are cheaper,more breatable, and more durable than wool socks. I wear them doubled up.
  
  
• Follow Andrew Skurka's Core 13 Clothing List. And while you're at it, buy his book as a resource.
  
  
• Get a backpack that can carry it all. The backpack is what you buy last. Make sure it's fitted well and set-up correctly. I used my Ohm 2.0 for years before realizing that I hadn't set-up the straps properly. It made a night and day difference once I followed ULA's video on backpack fit.
  
  
• Get out there!

Bona fides: I'm running 15 marathons in 12 months this year, including Chicago and NYC myself (with MCM in-between). But I also run 63-100 miles/week. I ran my marathon PR in Feb (3:08, previous PR was a 3:12). The vast majority of my training miles have been recovery pace, for me that's 9:05/mi. The second bulk of my miles are general aerobic, typically 8:20/mi. If it's enough time between marathons and I'm feeling recovered, I'll do an 8 x 1K session @ 8K race pace w/600M RI. I occasionally do some marathon pace running as part of my medium and long runs. I'm doing very few tempo runs.

My approach for each race has been a game-day decision. I generally go out aiming for 3:25'ish (7:49) and if I'm feeling good a couple miles in, pick up the pace. Most of my races I've finished 3:15 +- 2 minutes. One race it was exceptionally warm, so I ended up pacing another runner to a 3:42 finish. Another race I blew up and ended up at 3:32.

So anyway, I'd recommend that she prepare for Chicago using her choice of marathon training schedule, including full taper, as if it will be her only marathon. If everything feels great that day, weather is good, etc, then she should go for a PR at Chicago. Then she should use a multiple-marathon schedule to prepare for NYC, and just run NYC for fun. Advanced Marathoning has a bunch of multiple-marathon schedules depending upon weekly mileage and time between races. I can post one later today for 4 weeks.

edit: 4 weeks between marathons schedule - scale mileage as appropriate. Or she could just run all recovery mileage, getting in one 15 miler if possible if her only goal for NYC is to complete it after a successful Chicago.

OTOH, if things aren't right for a PR at Chicago, say it's warm, or she missed a week or two of training, etc, then she should use Chicago as a long-run. She should run well below her marathon pace, possibly using a walk-run scheme. For example, in the past I've set my watch to kilometers, then run ~ 9:00/mi for 1K, walk for 30-60s, repeat. You'll still end up below 10:00/mi doing this, which is around a 4:20 marathon.

Then, she should go for a PR at NYC. There's 4 weeks between the races, so she could run all easy/recovery the first week after Chicago, then follow the last 3 weeks of her schedule again to prepare for NYC. I did something like this in 2013, using Grandfather Mountain in early July as a long-run, finishing around 4:20, then getting my first BQ in early September (3:12, prior PR was a 3:22). I realize that's 8 weeks instead of 4, but it's a similar idea.

BTW, sub-4 is ~ 9:09/mi. You write that she running most of her miles at that pace. Easy miles should be 15-25% slower than MP, so she should really be running her easy miles at 10:25-11:20/mi. Her volume is also low for a marathon that's 13 weeks away. And she likes to cross train. You might look at the Run Less Run Faster schedule which is 16 weeks, using NYC as the target marathon, and just fitting in Chicago as an over-distance long-run, going easy there as I described, then possibly skipping the speed work the first week after Chicago and just doing equivalent easy mileage.

• http://www.furman.edu/sites/first/Documents/The%20Less%20is%20More%20Marathon%20Plan.pdf
  
• https://www.amazon.com/Runners-World-Faster-3-Run-Week/dp/1609618025/
  
  (I've used RLRF + Crossfit successfully. That's what I ran my 3:22 off of. But I think I padded the mileage by about 10-15 miles a week with additional recovery miles.)
  
  $0.02.

Can you cross-train at home at all? Having a stationary bike at home and riding it for 30 minutes while watching TV can actually be kind of fun. Other strength exercises, like circuits of push-ups, planks, squats/lunges, can also help your running a lot.

Are you running the same distance every time? You can gain fitness running 3 times a week (see this book, which actually advocates only 3 days a week of running, along with 2 days of cross-training). The trick is to have a purpose for each of those 3 workouts. For example, your Wednesday run could be a tempo/interval/fartlek run, your Saturday run would be a very easy 2-3 mile run, and your Sunday run would be your "long slow distance" (LSD) run. Start with your LSD run at 4 miles, and increase it every week by a half-mile or full mile, if you feel comfortable doing so. Go slow on your LSD run. Really slow. Time on your feet is what's important.

You can become a better runner on 3 runs a week if you are smart, and patient. Every time you go out for a run, ask yourself, "what is the purpose of this run"? Is it to work on speed (Wednesday intervals/fartleks)? Is it to loosen up (Saturday shrot run)? Is it to work on overall endurance (LSD run)? You'll progress faster this way, and you'll likely feel more of a sense of accomplishment at the end of each run too, since you'll have had a specific goal and met it.

Good luck. Don't add miles or speed to quickly; the most-important secret to being a runner is to keep from getting hurt!

>Do you think my initial goal (3:10) was unrealistic based on my mileage in training?

This question is based on the individual, however increasing your weekly mileage safely will not hinder your performance. There are plenty of people who run much faster on less mileage, but this does not mean that you can.

>Did I simply go out a bit too eager and pay the price?

The marathon is hard. Each race day is different, and with longer distances small things like a few degrees temperature difference take a toll later in the race. General consensus is that if you're running the second half slower than the first you went out too fast.

>If training could have yielded better results, would you put performance drop down to slight illness?

I'm sure getting sick didn't help, but knowing how much it may have slowed you is impossible to know.

>For next marathon, what would you recommend I do differently? I suppose more smart mileage.

Your previous PR times seems to scale pretty well, so I don't know what specifically you should do differently outside of the normal advice that more miles won't hurt.

The Higdon plans are pretty good and I've used them myself in the past. You'll find that many runners here in /r/AdvancedRunning "move up" to the plans in Advanced Marathoning , and Daniel's Running Formula. Advanced Running focuses more specifically on marathons, while the Daniel's book pretty deep into explaining the science being training.


Edit: spelling

Sure! I just picked up this book: https://www.amazon.com/Daniels-Running-Formula-3rd-Jack/dp/1450431836/

I read through most of it (there is a ton of information in the book), but the 40 mile 2Q marathon plan was the one I ended up choosing. It seemed to fit best with my current commitments and was also challenging for me without being too intimidating.

This also seemed like a good comparison between marathon plans: http://fellrnr.com/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Marathon_Training_Plans

I don't have experience with many of those plans, so I'm basically taking the author at his word. I assumed I would fit into the "Improver" or "Enthusiast" category and went from there (even though I had never run a marathon before).

Good luck!

Ones I have read and recommend:

Jack Daniels
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00F0X7U2S/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

Pfitz
https://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Marathoning-2nd-Pete-Pfitzinger/dp/0736074600/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1510544635&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=Pfitinger

Yessis
https://www.amazon.com/Explosive-Running-Science-Kinesiology-Performance/dp/0809298996/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1510544911&sr=1-1&keywords=explosive+running

Noakes
https://www.amazon.com/Lore-Running-4th-Timothy-Noakes/dp/0873229592/ref=pd_sim_14_5?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=3QK52ZDHZVX4K6QW383Q

Fitzgerald (one of several)
https://www.amazon.com/Brain-Training-Runners-Revolutionary-Endurance-ebook/dp/B000VMHHBW/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1510544985&sr=1-1&keywords=brain+training+for+runners

Ones I have not read but have heard good things about:

Hansons
https://www.amazon.com/Hansons-Marathon-Method-Your-Fastest-ebook/dp/B01C6FBGHW/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1510544663&sr=1-3&keywords=hansons+running&dpID=51L6b5-M7OL&preST=_SY445_QL70_&dpSrc=srch


Bill Squires
https://www.amazon.com/Speed-Endurance-Bill-Squires/dp/0977250504

Peter Coe
https://www.amazon.com/Winning-Running-Successful-Racing-Training/dp/1852239972/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1510544703&sr=1-1&keywords=peter+coe&dpID=51lmDYFDyLL&preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch

There is also an out of print (I think) book by Arthur Lydiard that is really good. And for that matter, I am not sure I linked the correct Bill Squires book. One is really good, while the other is an awful, watered-down version.

I have a pretty similar background. I ran in high school, then DIII in college, quit running for many years, got back to it as a pre-masters/masters runner. People kept asking me questions, so I started coaching for free. Then on a spare weekend, I got certified as a USATF level 1 coach, which is really fun. I really recommend it, since you're a T&F fan.

So. . . In the process of taper I've been arming myself with info on planning the next couple of cycles. (Happy to report that I STILL have not filled in any training beyond a few weeks of recovery post-Boston!) Tying up Healthy Intelligent Training on Lydiard principals at the moment.

One thing stuck out with me was a statement (below) re: VO2 max training. As an endurance monster, average runner - re: not a speedster it really stuck out to me. I looked back at the VO2 that I did do this training cycle and I would say as soon as I hit interval times around that 5min mark - my recovery for that type of workout was definitely on the high end. I bailed early in the 3 x 1600m so I can't speak to the after effect ultimately but that would have put me in the 6:45-ish range for each interval had I executed it well. And that might very well have been too much based on this.

To the more experienced and coaching type folks: Merit to applying this type of 'max time' principle to VO2 work akin to the 'diminishing returns on LR greater than 3hrs'? It seems logical to me . . .

>The most effective work bouts or intervals for running appear to be longer than 2 minutes or shorter than 5 minutes, with equal or shorter recovery, depending on fitness. Any longer than 5 minutes at VO2 max pace and it’s too near being a race in intensity, without the adrenalin, to have training value.

Livingstone, Keith (2012-03-01). Healthy Intelligent Training, 2nd Ed (p. 149). Cardinal Publishers Group. Kindle Edition.

PS I totally think we should do a Symposium on the 'Running Laws of Diminishing Returns'.

Hey, I know I'm late to the party but I wanted to help. I highly recommend two things:

1. Purchase... or "find"... a copy of Daniel's Running Formula. There's currently a 3rd edition out, but there isn't much new stuff from the 2nd edition that would benefit you. So, if you can get a cheap 2nd edition, just roll with that. This will help you TREMENDOUSLY with your training.
   
   
   
   
2. Check out r/running. It's a great community and there are tons of posts that will help you with these kinds of problems.
   
   
   
   Good luck!

I'd recommend picking up a few books. Ultralight Backpackin' Tips by Mike Clelland, and Ultimate Hiker's Gear Guide by Andrew Skurka for starters. These will help you a ton.

Then, what was just said, ask yourself with each item, "Am I packing my fears?" "Do I really need this?" and "What would realistically happen if I left this at home?" I'm seeing a ton of unnecessary and/or redundant stuff, not to mention all the heavy stuff.

For example, paracord, multitool, lantern, lots of heavy stuff sacks, an ultra-heavy water reservoir, full bottle of soap (you only need a few drops of that stuff), 3 heavy knives (a tiny swiss army classic or even a razor blade would do the trick), tons of excessive, heavy and redundant clothing (use a simple, versatile layering system with no redundancy), etc. Your first aid kit weighs almost 13oz! You can easily make a good one for under 3. You have a space blanket and two redundant fire starters (emergency only items) when you are carrying a gas stove and a sleeping bag (actual versions of the things your survival kit is supposed to improvise). The list is quite long.

Also, I'd take a serious look at some of the UL/SUL hammock guys on YouTube and get some ideas from their videos on how to dramatically simplify and lighten your hammock system. It seems incredibly complicated and heavy to me, esp. based on what I've seen online from other Hammock guys. For instance, a +6oz gear pouch? A suspension system that weighs more than your actual hammock? Yikes. Definitely take a look at lots of the lighterpack links you see in people's flairs on here too and just get some ideas for how to simplify, reduce, and eliminate items in your gear list. YouTube is your friend. There are tons of UL and SUL guys on there who camp in Hammocks. Learn from their experience and save yourself from having to re-live their mistakes.

Good luck and have fun! I know it probably seems overwhelming now, but just whittle down one thing at a time and you'll get there. You're already off to a good start with having all your gear in a list online to create accountability and show you the true weights of everything. It's fun to see how light you can go with your gear list and your back will thank you for it!

Yeah, I could see that they are really into heart rate monitoring, but I haven't ever liked the idea of using a heart rate monitor.

Reading Training Essentials for Ultrarunning has really convinced me I'm better off without heart rate though. He goes into great detail, but it basically boils down to the fact that RPE (Rated Perceived Exertion) is more accurate for running in proper training zones than heart rate. Heart rate can be elevated for a number of reasons that don't mean you need to run slower, and worst of all, fatigue can actually depress your heart rate making you train too hard when fatigued, which is even worse!

Hence my curiosity about the Stryd. That seems like it might be a more accurate alternative to heart rate. Not sure, but even on hills its running power meter might be as accurate as speed + laps on a track.

Have you heard of the Hansons Marathon Method?

Hansons First Marathon: Step Up to 26.2 the Hansons Way https://www.amazon.com/dp/1937715795/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_F-b2CbYJDP0PT

Hansons Half-Marathon Method: Run Your Best Half-Marathon the Hansons Way https://www.amazon.com/dp/1937715191/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_w1b2CbF4SNEZR

Hansons Marathon Method: Run Your Fastest Marathon the Hansons Way https://www.amazon.com/dp/1937715485/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_nSb2CbR4V7518

Once you get into the longer distances, it's worth buying a book on the program you will use. You can find the plan online for free but it's best to understand the ins and outs of a program so you are following it correctly. The hansons marathon method is amazing. The book is structured to help you understand what running does to your body, how to adapt your body through the various workouts (how to do the workouts and which paces) and the concept of cumulative fatigue. It goes over goal selection, the workouts, schedule modifications, diet, rest, cross training, etc.


Luke Humphrey has online community forums (Facebook and elsewhere) as well as blogs and podcasts that help to reinforce the content of the book.


I was amazed at the quality of the program and I'm a full believer in the program. I used this program for my first marathon and I'm starting it again in July for the Philly marathon.

Congrats on taking the plunge to Marathoning! I am new too, but I wanted to suggest this book, The Non-Runner's Marathon Trainer (used, loved, and suggested to me by a 5x marathoner) it's pretty much a 5K to marathon 16 week starters guide with excellent tips on nutrition and hydration, stretching and cross training, mental strength for the long runs, and of course the mileage plan, goal to finish without injury. It suggests 4-day per week running (Mon, Wed ,Thurs, Sat for me) starting at 15 miles (3,4,3,5) and increasing 1-2 miles a week until week 13 where you start to taper. Week 12 and 13 are 5,8,5,18.

It is not a 4 hour plan but is pretty much guaranteed to get you to the finish

Run a marathon:

http://www.amazon.com/Non-Runners-Marathon-Trainer-David-Whitsett/dp/1570281823/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

(Just to be clear: I am in no way affiliated with the authors.)

It's one of those things that you think that you can't do, but this book shows you that you CAN do it. It teaches you to think positively. It teaches you to keep your goals realistic - yes, they make running a marathon realistic. I just ran my first 10 mile run today and I feel that I can do ANYTHING. Doing this course has helped me with work, with my personal life, you name it. I've started eating better, sleeping better... I know I'm sounding like an informercial, but an endorphin rush does that to you.

It sounds to me like you need an experience of persevering and succeeding. So run a marathon :)

First, congrats on the babies. Double the fun!

Second, it sounds mostly likely that given your times, age, and 40 mpw, you can get below 40:00 for a 10K in 3 months. Mostly. You may need to change up your training a little bit.

You definitely need some VO2 workouts, track repeats. That's probably more important in a 10K training than tempo runs, but you want a healthy mix of both.

The most recommended books around here for generic training plans (which would suit you well I think) are either Faster Road Racing or Daniels Running Formula. You could probably tailor one of those workouts to your time/mileage needs and do very well.

This is all very generic advice though, I second /u/lostintravise's questions. Knowing where the 19:49 and 41:30 times came from, mileage/workouts/how recent, is the biggest indicator. That said, if you weren't following a structured plan, they were recent, and less than the mileage you want to hit, there's pretty good chance you can get to where you need to be.

Your legs will adapt to the stresses of running if you give them time and don't demand effort levels that they're not ready to provide yet. I agree with the "slow down" advice that others have posted. If you are a total beginner, you cannot expect to run with Meb Keflezghi levels of endurance. If you are feeling tired, slow down a bit to a sustainable pace. Mix in walking breaks if you feel like you need it.

However - and this has been really useful advice for me - slow running has its place, and fast running has its place. I'm going to take a page out of Coach Jack Daniels' book here: whenever you go for a run, you should know the purpose of the workout. Is the point of your run to develop a base for further training? to develop the heart muscle? to develop resistance to injury? to adapt to the stresses of running? Then run slow and easy. Is the point of your run to develop the ability of your aerobic system to utilize air? or to develop speed? Then run fast and hard (in a controlled way, of course).

The point is that running at an easy effort is very good for you and not something to be looked down upon. It is also a good idea to mix easy effort runs in with quality workouts (i.e., high-intensity interval workouts).

Given what you've said, it sounds to me like you're at the point where most of your running, if not all of it, should be at an easy effort level. Consider doing some sessions where you walk for a few minutes to warm up, then alternate running for a few minutes and walking for a few minutes to recover. After a while, that will get easy. Then you can gradually increase distance, pace, etc. Just build up slowly.

A lot of people around here recommend Pfitzinger's Advanced Marathoning. I just started one of his plans so I can't speak too much on how much improvement I've made personally.

He lists specific heart rate zones for every type of workout that you will do on his plan. It takes out the guesswork of always trying to run a specific pace. Basically, your heart rate dictates the pace you run each workout.

I've noticed that I have to run slower than usual to keep my heart rate in the correct zone (just like OP says in his blog.) After just 4 weeks I've noticed that I'm running faster at a lower heart rate and my resting heart rate is almost 5% lower.

thank you very much for your detailed response, this totally sounds like me and wow your race times sound fantastic to me, I will be giving the 18/55 a try I think for my next serious marathon (phuket in June) perhaps I can cut the first week of the 18/55 plan to make the timeline fit.

i am assuming you are talking about this book here:

https://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Marathoning-2nd-Pete-Pfitzinger/dp/0736074600

I will get that and have a read and then probably do the 18/55 first before trying the 18/70

1 More question on a practicality side, I have tried plans from books before and have never found a simple system of transferring everything into a readable format that I could pin on the fridge. do you tend to create a excel spreadsheet of simply copy the page in the book (I am assuming sometimes dates and rest days have to be shuffled around cause life gets in the way) or do you not keep a log that way?

thanks again for your help :)

This is what C25K plans were invented for. Biking uses different muscles and is (I'm assuming) a lot easier on the feet since they aren't taking a pounding step after step. I may take a bit of flak for this, but I think running is probably just generally more of a physical challenge than biking. This is why there is a huge long list of runner's injuries that typically stem from amping mileage up too quickly and not getting enough recovery time.

I had been doing pretty unstructured runs for a long period but once I wanted to enter a half marathon I was recommended The Non-Runner's Marathon Trainer. I found it incredibly helpful.

You may also want to look into Jeff Galloway's running plans since he actually times walk breaks into his runs (my sister PRed a race after using his run-walk-run method).

Some of the common errors people make when they start are trying to go balls to the wall sprinting instead of starting at a challenging-but-doable jog, and taking long strides which is great if you're sprinting but a waste of efficiency if you're doing longer runs (lots of distance runners recommend shorter, quicker steps).

Anyway, I was the DFL 16-minute miler in middle school and now my easier runs are 10-minute miles. You can totally get there, it just takes slow, consistent builds.

It is important to note how they explain the paces for each of the runs. There are mixes of easy/hard runs for a purpose and you should make sure your easy runs are actually easy. Use a recent race to determine your training paces using a calculator like VDOT or McMillian Running.

• Higdon (I would advise on selecting one of these for a beginner, probably novice 2)
  
• Hanson
  
• Pfitz (probably too advanced for you right now since it is designed for people that have finished a marathon)
  
  Another option is to join a running group. Many running stores such as Fleet Feet or Jack Rabbit offer marathon training programs. They will provide you with their own plan, running routes for the plan, and coaches and more experienced runners to gain advice from which is valuable for things like knowing your paces and learning about fueling. Plus it is much easier to run 20-milers when you are talking to others.

1. Books - Bought Faster Road Racing a few days ago. Hoping to gain some wisdom from the pros.
   
2. Training programs - In the past, whatever I found online that fit my schedule.
   
3. Reading - A while ago I read Eat and Run by Scott Jurek. I was amazed at how he made the best of whatever little he had growing up. Lots of good info about food and running.
   
4. Podcasts - I don't listen to any running related podcasts. I did listen to episode RA068 of Runner Academy podcast only because it featured Peter Sagal from NPR. I'm a big fan of Wait Wait Don't Tell Me.
   Edit: Words

> In short, any rep range will build some strength, hypertrophy and endurance.

I think this is an incredibly important statement. As a runner for over 30-years now I've had many people tell me things like "yeah but that's just building endurance" which is totally false. As I got in to better running shape my speed and strength naturally increased as well. No, running 5-milers isn't the most efficient way to train for the 100m but yes your speed at the 100m will increase (up to a point) as you get in to better distance shape.

Citation: https://www.amazon.com/Daniels-Running-Formula-Jack-ebook/dp/B00F0X7U2S

Gotcha. Well, you have the benefit of not having a hard deadline to meet these goals, so that pressure is off!

1. Recommend you look into a book such as Daniels' Running Formula or something by Matt Fitzgerald. They will have plans and workouts you can follow to help you bring your 5k time down; these guys are life long professional coaches and, while I think some of their theory is overly complicated, the workouts are awesome. The Daniels' book has sample plans and weeks in there as well.
   
   
2. See above.
   
   
3. Check out this guide to swimming to 1 mile with no stops. I'm using this to build my initial swimming base for a half iron later this year. Despite having zero swimming background before this year, I'm up to week 5 and this plan is working for me even though I'm only swimming 2 days a week. Doesn't seem hard to add another week or two to extend to 2k, and there are links at the bottom of that page for workouts that you can do to increase your strength and speed.
   
   Hope that helps.

Sounds like you're ready for Pfitz. Many runners on here have used his book, myself included, to excellent results. Additionally you mention wanting longer runs than 16M, the backbone of Pfitz's plan is a LOT of long runs. He's known to drop "medium-long runs" on a Wednesday that are like 12-15 miles and then throw an 18-20 miler at you on the weekend.

The workouts aren't insane, but he definitely gets you with those long runs. If you stick true to the plan, choose the mileage that's right for you and come into the plan with the right base...you'll crush with Pfitz.

Advanced Marathoning by Pete Pfitzinger

Fun fact, I chose the name for this subreddit based on his book which I first read when I was 17 and training for the Marine Corps Marathon. Also a fun fact, I do not recommend getting into marathons at age 17. :)

> I am not sure if just running 5km each day and slowly getting faster is the best way to go?

This is a common mistake, since it seems like it should work. It won't. Training like this will lead you to plateau very quickly. If you do break 18 using this method, you probably could have gone much faster with smarter training.

Check out Pete Pfitzinger's Faster Road Racing: http://amzn.com/1450470459. Follow the section on building up a base and then choose a 5K training plan based on your goal mileage. Get a heart rate monitor and follow Pete's advice on run pacing. It's a lot of information to digest, but sub-18 is a pretty big ask and requires smart training. Even if you don't break 18, you'll know more about running and racing than most people.

Good luck!

So it really depends on your goals. Did you calculate your VDOT from your 5K time? Are you trying to run a marathon? Perhaps that indicates that you have speed, but aren't trained as well in endurance (in which case, you'd emphasize long runs, making sure you can complete them and less emphasis on pace for long runs).

I'd say work out a schedule (perhaps by reading a sample schedule), and try it out for a week or two. If you can easily complete the different types of workouts, then adjust it up. If you want a scientific way of making sure you're in the right zone, then you'd have to calculate % of maximum heart rate.

But yeah, maybe every few months or so, retest your VDOT number and readjust.

I highly suggest picking up a good book such as "Advanced Marathoning".

I haven't read it, but I would check this one out: https://www.amazon.ca/Koerners-Field-Guide-Ultrarunning-Ultramarathon/dp/1937715221

I have read "Daniels' Running Formula" which is very very good: https://www.amazon.ca/Daniels-Running-Formula-3rd-Jack/dp/1450431836/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1469153523&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=Daniels+runnnig

I also recommend "Advanced Marathoning" which is a better all purpose "how to be a runner" book than Daniels, but a bit less scientific.

Both have training plans for beginners. And like people mentioned: getting good quickly is easy... it's not getting hurt that is tough!

Some questions in regards to the no stretch and no cool down: how are your performances? How much have you improved since you started running? Do you have any justifications for not? Also there is some research on the less is more theory. There is actually a whole book on it.. called [Run Less. Run Faster](
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1609618025/ref=mp_sim_p_dp_3?pi=SL500_SY125&qid=1347257908&sr=8-1)


I think this article is great. The author asks a lot of interesting questions. Then he postulates some theories around what is known and what is practiced. I'd love to see some research on the cool down effect planned over a periodized season. I would think the people who put in cool downs after intervals, tempos, races, etc will be more prepared for end-season tapers and championships than their non-cooling down counter part.

Awesome you'll do great! The two books I used to get an idea of my custom training plan were https://www.amazon.com/80-20-Running-Stronger-Training-ebook/dp/B00IIVFAEY , Runner's World Run Less, Run Faster: Become a Faster, Stronger Runner with the Revolutionary 3-Run-a-Week Training Program https://www.amazon.com/dp/1609618025/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_tgoNybD4BWG66 and you could use the running chapters from Be Iron Fit: Time-Efficient Training Secrets For Ultimate Fitness https://www.amazon.com/dp/1599218577/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_AhoNybMDF2E54. I'd recommend reading and then blending to make a plan that works for you. I didn't agree with all the run fast tips so blended with others. Also try and get these in paperback as there are charts and such that are hard to read via ebook version.

Good luck!

It all depends on the kind of shape they're in. This included my own mother when she was sedentary and wanted to get into shape like the people I coached. She was overweight and about 60 at the time. In one year she went from couch potato to finishing a half marathon in 2:45ish with no injuries and maintained that on her own after for several years.

For someone who is healthy, active, and only 23: read up on the best way to race a 5k, then go run the 5k. You should feel like you are about to vomit and fall over right after you cross the finish line. From there you can put together a good baseline.

Check out Daniels Running Formula for a chart/graph that you could then use for all sorts of paces. It's one of the best books for medium distance I found. If you want to specifically go for marathons, after you've done your first transition to Advanced Marathoning for some amazing training schedules.

First of all, congratulations! I'm not sure it's necessary to take an entire week off, but it might be helpful to reduce your mileage and throw in some slow recovery runs for the next week or two.

Depending on what your goals are, it might be helpful to further build up your base level of aerobic fitness by increasing your weekly mileage before you begin training for your next half. I just bought a copy of Faster Road Racing by Pete Pfitzinger, which has a number of great training programs for building up base mileage (as well as for specific race distances).

the bible

Your mileage may vary with that.

Perhaps a better option, I've always liked the idea of hanging topo-maps on my walls when they aren't in use, just never got around to buying an actual map (so much more convenient to print it from caltopo).

Most of the stuff you mentioned will depend on the hiker's personality and what they like - I don't have a use for keychains - even if they are cool, they will end up in a drawer and I won't feel bad about that. On the other hand, I would adore a book thats simply pictures of various trails around my area, doesn't even have to have words (though a rough idea of the area they were taken at sure helps for when I see those amazing views and want to go inspect up close). Still, my hiking buddy is the exact opposite.

^^You ^^seriously ^^can ^^never ^^go ^^wrong ^^with ^^park ^^passes ^^though

The best $10 you’ll ever spend on gear is https://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Hikers-Gear-Guide-Second/dp/1426217846/

Mostly because it’ll teach you how little gear you really need, how common things can suffice, where to put your $$ when you do buy, and avoid making poor purchases.

Buying the latest is always expensive but the last model or two is often 95% as good and 70% less, if patient and you hunt across the entire Web.

Sometimes the super cheap AliExpress is the way to go, other times it’s best to save up for that Katadyn. With the book, plus seeking specifics in r/ you’ll know

Pfitzinger Advanced Marathoning is what I base most of my training on. The first time I did one of his plans is the major turning point from me being "meh" to actually kind of decent at marathons.

Daniels' Running Formula is a staple, with a wider focus. I tend to lift specific workouts/weeks from his plans.

Hansons also has a great reputation, but I haven't used it personally. They mainly approach it as trying to train you to run the last part of the marathon.

Hal Higdon has good plans if your goal is to just finish and not die.

Most of these guys have plans for various levels of runner. The "easiest" Pfitz plan peaks at about 55 miles per week. Daniels is more "you pick your peak mileage, and then adjust according to a % for each week". It is pretty important to not bite off more than you can chew. As you learned, the most important thing is to get to the start line healthy.

Two great books with excellent marathon training plans are:

• Advanced Marathoning by Pete Pfitzinger and Scott Douglas
  
• Hansons Marathon Method
  
  Both have good intermediate plans in the ~50-55 mpw range that take 12-18 weeks. They also both contains tons of good info for a new marathoner.
  
  Good luck!

For your mornings, there's a few options for shorter hikes in the front range. Flattop mountain from Glen Alps Trailhead might be tolerable in the morning (crazy crowded on a nice summer evening). Near Point is another good, relatively quick hike.

For your several days free, I'd recommend shelling out a few bucks for 55 Ways (Amazon link), it will save me typing and the inevitable omission of good suggestions.

I will say, if you're on a moto, you pretty much gotta head out toward Glennallen, past the Matanuska Glacier and Lion's Head.

I've only been there once, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

If you are planning to do any backpacking, I highly recommend this guide: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0762772549?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

It has a bunch of hikes in it, and some very handy indexes (by length, by strenuousness etc) so that you can find you perfect activity.

Be aware of the fact that you have to book campsites through a pretty complicated process, so you should get on that right now.

If you like looking at plants or tracks and figure out what they are, this field guide is excellent. They also have it in the park book stores:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1560375558?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

Don't buy or rent bear spray. You can go to any of the back country offices and the park rangers will give you bear spray for free, under the condition that you bring it back to one of the back country offices in the park (honor system).

There are some plans in the following two books:

1. Relentless Forward Progress
   
   
2. Hal Koerner's Field Guide to Ultrarunning
   
   I personally didn't follow any plan but made sure for the training to be specific - on trails similar to what I expected in the race and with similar elevation gain per mile. I focused on back to back long runs on weekends, a lot of climbing, and less on the distance. I don't think I ever did more than may be 45-50 miles per week for any of my 50 milers or 100K races but made sure to hit close to 8,000-10,000 ft of gain per week on my peak weeks.

Get this book Non-Runner's Marathon Trainer. It will take you from couch to marathon in 16 weeks (I believe) and I used it to complete my first marathon- granted I probably started off in better shape than you but I recommend it highly.

Cheers for wanting to do a marathon- and good luck.

Two pretty popular programs around here are from Daniel's Running Formula and Faster Road Racing. As for philosophy it is pretty similar to good marathon training, a little less speed work and a longer long run. You can get away with less, but personally I think it is good to take your marathon mileage and hone it with the extra speed work in a 5k-10k program. Hope that helps!

A bit off-kilter for this sub, but for anybody who actually wants to train to race competitively, Daniel's Running Formula is invaluable. It covers training (speedwork, intervals, long runs, hills, fartleks, strength training), nutrition, and recovery for everything from the 800m-marathon. Chances are you won't have many clients seeking a sharp 800m or single mile time who didn't also run in high school or college, but the speed training info is invaluable, and substantially better/more detailed than the vague notion of "HIIT sprints", which I'm pretty sure 95% of beginners are doing at high injury risk and with terrible pacing anyway. Also, Jack Daniels and Steve Pfitzinger are leaps and bounds ahead of Hal Higdon for half and full marathon plans catered to people who actually want to have a competitive finish time.

Sure, I'm biased, but unless you're going to specifically be a strength coach, you might want to broaden your knowledge into fields that future clients might care about. You also might want to do some research into agility work (American football drills, soccer drills, sprinter/jumper plyos, etc.) in case some clients also have an interest in that. I vaguely know some sprint drills, but I'm mid/long distance so it's really not something I'm super knowledgeable about.

As a newb, and with slightly different goals (more interested in motocamping, than backpacking, personally), I may be mistaken, but I don't think there is a list. Identify your goals and your needs, and that will inform your gear decisions.

I'd recommend checking out Andrew Skurka's book. It's well-written, and informative. https://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Hikers-Gear-Guide-Second/dp/1426217846/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1505101910&sr=8-1

There's also some good info on his website if you want to save a few dollars (I haven't looked too much into the site, so I don't know how much the site and the book differ).

The sidebar here has some links that look really promising, and there are plenty of shake-down requests you can read to get an idea of what you might want.

You might really like this book Training for the Uphill Athlete. It really does a great job covering the physiology of endurance sports. It's a followup to New Alpinism and it's more targeted for running and skiing. It talks a lot about targeting aerobic adaptions, why you need to slow down to gain those improvements, heart rate training, and a lot more.

https://www.amazon.com/Training-Uphill-Athlete-Mountain-Mountaineers/dp/1938340841/

It sounds like you're taking enough recovery then. If I were you I'd also look into buying the Dr. Jack Daniels running book; https://www.amazon.com/Daniels-Running-Formula-3rd-Jack/dp/1450431836/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1502830279&sr=8-1&keywords=Jack+Daniels+running+book . This will give you a good idea of what splits should look like for certain paces across most workouts and races. Just seeing the runners world plan means you're just seeing basically one out of 70 plus columns from the book with no reference of what your splits are actually suggesting you are capable of. This book is truly a running bible and will help you better understand your training now and into the future.

First change is you need more variability both in your pace (easy runs should be A LOT easier), and you should vary your weekly mileage as well. Every 3rd week or so do a week of lower mileage to let your body recover.

​

Plug your most recent 5k into this calculator https://runsmartproject.com/calculator/ , and you'll see your correct training paces.

​

I'd keep ht monday 5miles with 3 at tempo (your tempo pace is close to where it should be based on your 5k time), but for sure add in some much slower easier runs (perhaps on non-recovery weeks you can do 1 longer (10+ mi) easy run and a few shorter runs instead of a bunch of moderately hard runs in the 5-8 mile range).

​

Check out a book like Faster Road Racing (https://www.amazon.com/Faster-Road-Racing-Half-Marathon/dp/1450470459) for programs, or even an online program like Hal Hidgon if you want to do a half marathon with a training plan

​

Congrats on making more time to run and getting into the trail and ultra scene. I would encourage you to get out as many races as you can in a volunteer, crew and pacer role and learn from others in the sport. Be patient in your progress. remember endurance training (and ultrarunning) takes years and decades to build. SO, just be patient with progress. there are a number of good books an resources out there including my book and blog as well as ultrarunning magazine.

Hi!

I am new to this as well. I've found a few different websites that have been very helpful for me.

Andrew Skurka's blog - Has a lot of great information in it. If you have some extra cash I highly recommend his book The Ultimate Hiker’s Gear Guide

Paul's blog - Gives a different perspective on things. Has budget friendly lists to work with.

I also have really liked the reviews from Man Makes Fire it has helped me tremendously with my gear selection.

Got it. A one mile effort is run basically at your maximal oxygen capacity, or VO2max. To increase your VO2max, you need to incorporate some kind of interval training to your runs. This stimulates your cardiovascular system to adapt, increase your maximal aerobic capacity, allowing you to run at faster paces for a longer period of time.

For specifics, both for your goal and running in general, I recommend Daniel's Running Formula, or if you don't want to buy the book, there are tons of summaries online. It's a well validated, evidence based approach to running and training. PM me if you have any other questions. I'm happy to help in any way I can.

Source: Am Exercise Physiologist

For better or worse I've become sort of a follower of Pete Pfitzinger. His book Faster Road Racing has become my go to resource for all things training. His break down of nutrition is only 1 chapter but I found it very helpful when I transitioned off of a Keto diet and into fueling my running. It also explains each type of run. The reason for each type of run. The proper paces and goals for each. I use the Half Marathon training plan as my daily schedule. Following this plan and the information in the book I've gone from a 2:20:xx half in May, to a 2:09:xx in July to progression runs under 2:00:xx a few weeks ago. I'm hoping to go sub 1:55:xx in 3 weeks but we'll have to wait and see on that one.

There are also some other books that come highly recommended on the nutrition front. Racing Weight by Matt Fitzgerald comes to mind first along with all of it's follow up cook books and web sites. I don't buy into all of his ideas but a lot of people do and some of it is really pretty sound advice.

Obviously, some great information is available in books about hiking [Yellowstone] (http://www.amazon.com/Hiking-Yellowstone-National-Park-Regional/dp/0762772549/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1419281883&sr=8-1&keywords=hiking+yellowstone) and [Grand Teton.] (http://www.amazon.com/Hiking-Grand-Teton-National-Park/dp/0762772557/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1419281883&sr=8-5&keywords=hiking+yellowstone)


My most valuable tip is to avoid the big Park campgrounds while you're camping before your backpacking trip. Canyon, Norris, and Madison campgrounds etc. are all expensive, crowded, and usually sold out. Even in GTNP Colter Bay, Jenny Lake and the other Park campgrounds are the same. And don't even think about trying the hotels. The trick is to go to Forest Service campgrounds which are cheaper, and less crowded, and you can usually get in without a reservation. Check out the lesser known [Pacific Creek] (http://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/btnf/recarea/?recid=71493) campground, and [Sheffield campground] (http://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/btnf/recreation/camping-cabins/recarea/?recid=71503&actid=29). Also, if you drive up the road labelled on Google as 'Ashton Flagg-Ranch Road' in GTNP just a few miles south of YNP, there are a handful of maintained campgrounds that are basically empty- probably because they don't appear on any map or website. I just found out about them in a single paragraph in a guidebook that I picked up.


If you choose to Hike Cascade Canyon in GTNP, I recommend saving a few miles by taking the ferry across Jenny Lake. In fact, I believe the first shuttle of the morning is free one way to start your hike.


I recommend Falcon guides to help you plan your backpacking trips from there. My final advice is that it is really cold at night year round in that area. A sleeping bag that is as least zero degree is necessary, and in May you can probably except snow storms, and trail closures due to snow.

I personally feel that visualization and a positive attitude go a long way. If you dread it to begin with...it's going to suck. Sounds silly and simple but it works for me. Other than that, I totally agree with increasing your mileage. Not only will you hit your stride later on, but you will enjoy once you do and that will make you look forward to your next run. I recommend a fabulous training book (even if you're not training for a marathon). It got me past the initial "this sucks" period.

http://www.amazon.com/Non-Runners-Marathon-Trainer-David-Whitsett/dp/1570281823/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314227232&sr=8-1

For my first 50-miler, I used Hal Koerner's plan that can be found in the back of his book--and also with a quick Google search.

Basically, his plan had me doing an hour of running each day (6-9miles) during the week. And, then the weekends were back-to-back long runs.

I usually run everything under 12miles at about a 7min/mile clip. On the weekends, I'd find my way to the trails and work on slowing down and just covering the mileage, but even then, my pace was no slower than 10min/mile.

Since I live in such a flat location, I told myself I would run faster each run to make up for the lack of elevation & altitude training. And, it worked. I got to the start line on race day and felt amazing. I finished that day and my legs still felt really great (I had other issues, but it was due to my poor eating). If you need a race recap, here's mine.

I would highly suggest Hal's plans, as I just used his to attempt my first 100-miler in September. I had to quit at mile-77 with a pretty badly sprained ankle, but my legs were feeling great. I really think his plans are quite good. I'm modifying his 100-mile plan right now to take another shot at 100-miles in December.

+1 to the library (that's how I first got a hold of the plans), but FWIW, I've had great success with Pfitz's training plans and think the $18+ for the book is well worth it, given the price you'd pay for other quality training plans out there.

Whether or not you hit the wall not only is a matter of training but also having and carrying out a solid in-race nutrition plan. The wall hits people because their lower bodies run out of glycogen, and they haven't sufficiently re-fueled those stores with carbohydrate during the race.

Matt Fitzgerald and the Hanson brothers are among the few experienced running writers who seriously get into fueling during races, and they may be worth a read for finer points.

But in general you need to work on fueling during long runs. Thankfully, Chicago's drink stations use Gatorade (which contains carbs; low-cal drinks like Ultima do not), and if you prefer to fuel that way you can practice hitting the Gatorade every 1.3 miles during training runs. You could also practice with gels or gummy-style fuel like Shot Bloks, but that gets a lot more pricey than Gatorade, and Gatorade has the added benefit of also rehydrating you.

Again, others get into the finer points of marathon fueling much better than I just did, but that's a place to start if you want to avoid the wall.

i started on hal higdons and ended up not liking it. too much just running, not nearly enough quality to make me feel like i was improving.

i picked up Jack Daniels Running Formula and really, really like it. it has plans from general fitness to 800m to full marathons. i recently PRed my half after doing his blue fitness into an HM plan, all the while i was getting faster on my easy days. the book teaches a lot about programming weeks, which i consider to be the most important thing one can take away from this book. its worth checking out imo.

Since you have the running background and are interested in improvement, I'd recommend picking up a book from one of the better known coaches. Two very well-regarded resources are Pete Pfitzinger's Faster Road Racing or Jack Daniels Running Formula. For more information on different training plans, check out the Summer Series from /r/AdvancedRunning.

Not only will you find training plans for various distances, but you can read about the philosophy behind the training: What is the purpose of each run you do? How do you structure a training plan for optimal performance?

Edit: And now that I see what the bot linked, I HIGHLY recommend reading /u/itsjustzach's Bicentennial Race Report.

Read a book about marathon training. My favorites are:

Advanced Marathoning

Daniels Running Formula

Hansons Marathon Method

Even if you don't ultimately decide to use the plans from these books, you will gain a much better understanding of the principles behind proper marathon training, which will help you to make good choices when picking a plan.

I'm a runner who lifts, though I still haven't found my optimal balance between the two. I tend to focus on lifting in the winter, and running in the warmer months.

For lifting, I've had good success building a base with SL followed by Texas Method, though I've found my upper body numbers tend to stall quickly. I think I need more volume to keep making progress. When it comes time to up the number of running days I'm considering making a switch to 5/3/1 or another 4 day split because last summer I found my legs couldn't handle rep maxes on Friday, followed by long runs on Saturday. I just wasn't recovering fast enough.

When it comes to running, everyone always plugs Higdon and his plans. I agree they're good for beginners, but once I had a couple of races under my belt I really learned a lot from Daniels and Hudson & Fitzgerald. I think both books are really worth it it you're looking to become a better runner.

1 - I'd say your times are pretty decent. For reference a sub 20min 5k is quite good and a sub 17min 5k is elite.


2 - For training tips, I recommend this book: Daniels' Running Formula

It has training programs from 800m to marathon and it is a very useful resource.

Or you can simply just add speedwork into your weekly routine to get better at sprinting.

Local Alaskan here. Mid-May can vary a lot in terms of weather so you need to be prepared for winter-summer hiking. We've had multiple feet of snowfall at sea level in May, so you can imagine how it is at elevation. Here's the most popular local guide for Southcentral Alaska:

http://www.amazon.com/55-Ways-Wilderness-Southcentral-Alaska/dp/0898867916

My favorite spring hike is Crow Pass but it's not really a full week trip, more like 3-4 days tops depending on how slow you take it. Spring is good for that one because you ford a river and the height should be low.

To put it in perspective... I can go 16 mile long runs in the 5:50s, but I can't go sub 4:30 in a mile.

So, try and get to at least 40-50 miles perk week. Buy good shows. Get new shoes every 300 miles. Log your miles on your shoes. Try to get your regular training pace below 7min. A GPS watch is amazing. Then, once you are at 40mpw, which could take a new runner a few months to get to (try and add a few miles per week), then throw in workouts like tempo runs, fartleks and intervals. You can google those and find out what they are. Want a book? http://www.amazon.com/Daniels-Running-Formula-3rd-Edition-Jack/dp/1450431836

I started a 20-week training program this summer for an October marathon, and did well enough I'm running a second 6 weeks after, so I'm still in training.

Since I have the tab up already this shows my mileage increase, basically 35 MPW avg to 45 MPW starting around Week 20.

Physically, I did get leaner. I was already a bit lean after losing 40 lbs earlier (6'2", 162 lbs), and due to more muscle:fat and also due to summer training (more water loss) i looked like I lost 5-10lbs, although I was generally 4 lbs under the previous weight. Appetite went up of course, otherwise I should have lost more. I also noticed more definition in my quads and calves.

Performance-wise, I noticed a big improvement in long runs: my two 18 and 20 mile runs before training really hurt my legs by the end. By the time long runs were called for in training, I handled them just fine. I also noticed a significant drop in heart rate although note I was doing more fast runs in the middle there (prior to start of June training). Here is heart rate corrected for speed and this shows the percent of time in zones. You can really see when I start marathon training (slow runs become much more prevalent).

Mentally, nothing huge: I liked having a long-term goal, since I could see improvement and was generally more focused in my runs since each one was prescribed. But I also missed running other races. Here's my dearth. I will say I was pretty sure I could finish the marathon so I didn't have to resort to a lot of the mental tricks I read about in the Non-Runner's Marathon Trainer. I'm now following Advanced Marathoning for my upcoming marathon and it calls for "tune up" races so I can race again (<20 minute 5K PR yesterday! Made it by half a second).

Hey, I'm 43 and just got into running last year. It's been an amazing journey and the benefits in my life are innumerable. I have done a couple of half marathons with the same mentality as you... not fast or anything, just get through it. But I really caught the bug and now want to see how much I can improve but without going full on Pro athlete regimen.

I picked up the book Run Faster, Run Less

What appealed to me was the idea of only running 3 times a week. I found when I was trying to do a lot of KM's I was getting some niggling injuries because my legs still weren't up to it and let's face it, I'm getting older. This book has given me a bit of focus and I know I can trust the speeds I run at won't injure me (hopefully) and the rest between runs gives my body time to recover nicely.

It has plans for 5k,10k, half and marathon distances and explains the necessity for Speed work, Tempo runs and slower long runs. There's a ton of stuff out there and it can be quite mind boggling but this one has some science and real world experience behind it that appealed to me.

Sure, probably should've included that. I have been running competitively since 1992, and have raced every distance from 400m to marathon. From 2004-2008, I was coached by Jack Daniels in Flagstaff, AZ. I draw heavily upon that experience and Daniels' Running Formula in my training. When I'm physically sound, I train 80-100 miles per week.

My training has been sporadic the last three years as a result of a sports hernia. Surgery last summer left me slightly improved, and a follow-up surgery last Wednesday will hopefully put me in a position to be more competitive. Leading up to last week's surgery, I was training ~60 miles per week.

Last month, I ran my first race in 3 years - 5k, 17:02. Not where I want to be, but I was satisfied given the circumstances. PRs at other distances: 2:51 marathon; 1:17 half; 34:22 10k. I'm not setting any records out there, but I worked hard for those times and I'm proud of them.

I have no formal experience as a coach, but I have provided training plans and guidance to many friends, family members, and coworkers over the years. Also, I recently went through a program offered by NFHS and USATF, and am now a certified track and field coach.

I went vegan this time last year and have since run 3 marathons. I don't take any supplements, but I recommend Daniel's Running Formula. I was surprised to learn that training for a marathon entails more than just packing on miles. Good luck.

While the Hal Higdon plan is certainly workable, I would recommend that someone who is going to do a serious half marathon to spend the effort to get a full book on the subject. Pfitzinger's or Daniels' are both good options. You're probably going to spend more than 100 hours training, it's worth it spend more than 15 minutes developing your plan. These books do a good job of explaining the theory which will help you adjust your plan to your lifestyle, schedule and injuries.

This book is good to help you learn about more about the science and ways to measure progress. It also includes some workouts and training plans. I believe that once you understand the "why" behind your training plans and runs, it will help you be a more focused runner. Advanced Marathoning

The Hansons Method is great if you have time to run up to six days per week. Even if you don't follow their plan exactly, the book is an excellent resource (Pfitzinger's Advanced Marathoning is also a great book.)

Get the Time Out Book of Country Walks - lots of good options and it was written for just the question you have.

They also do a really good book of walks in London, which is a brilliant way to see the city that will make you better informed than most Londoners.

To piggyback off of this...here is a great interpretation of Lydiard's periodization. Also, the definitive book about Lydiard training (that reads more like a training plan a la Pfitz and Daniels) is Healthy Intelligent Training. Highly recommend (plus it's got Craig Mottram on the cover so you know it's good).

If you're regularly running a sub-30 5k, you'll be fine to step up the distance. I'd recommend Run Less, Run Faster; with paces programmed from your best 5k time, 3 x runs per week (fartlek, tempo, long) and 3 x cross training days, I found it the perfect way to train for longer distances.

Going for a walk + pub lunch is always a good way to pass the time and clear your head. My favourite is probably Hampstead Heath combined with lunch at The Wells.

You can also do day-long hikes by train from London. My favourite is around Boxhill (albeit a bit heavy-going). There's an awesome Time Out book of day walks from London, which you can either buy here or access for free online here. Always check train times and pub hours before you go - the book was written a few years ago and some of the lunch pubs have sadly closed down.

Going from 17:20 to 16:30 is a much bigger jump than 19 to 17:20 but adding tempo and interval sessions to your week should help push you through 17 at least.

Take a look at Faster Road Racing which has some good plans and guidance you will find helpful.

https://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Marathoning-2nd-Pete-Pfitzinger/dp/0736074600

Aside from the plans themselves this book covers everything. It's a great resource. Diet, pacing, stretching, and the science behind all of it. It goes into heart rate training and everything. Highly recommend.

Welcome to the journey! Have you considered Hanson’s? It’s an absolutely fabulous plan. Very solid theory and science, a great community on FB, and once people try it they’re raving fans. It’s based on the concept of cumulative fatigue during training. As a result the longest long run is only 16 miles.

Hansons Marathon Method: Run Your Fastest Marathon the Hansons Way https://www.amazon.com/dp/1937715485/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_OFPcBb30SPJ11

You might want to invest in a copy of Pfitz's Faster Road Racing, where the lowest volume half marathon plan starts at 30 mpw and a 10 mile long run.

I am no expert, but I have read several different plans now. I think it's fair to say that with ~20 mpw currently, you would likely be happier come race day if you prioritize building up gradually (~+10% mpw) but fairly steadily (recover/consolidate every 4th week) to 35-40 mpw instead of your target 25-30 and spread over 5 days instead of your target 3-4. You can do three quality runs a week at this volume -- a couple of threshold/tempo intervals/runs (might want to base one on hills) and a long run -- with the others be easy/recovery runs. The other runs can incorporate some strides.

A valuable part of a formal training plan is getting the taper right, but you can probably piece this together from internet sources.

The usual rule of thumb for marathon training is 50 miles per week at the height of your training. If you can't reach that during the week because of commute times and such, I would just run like you do for your half marathons during the week and make sure you really utilize the long run over the weekend.

Long runs are the most important training run for a marathon. During your training if you can hit between 20-24 miles consistently for a few weeks then you should be fine for a marathon.

I hesitate to say you should run to work because carrying too much stuff while running may change your gait too much and end up in an injury.

The hardest part of marathon training is reaching the starting line injury free.

You should also read the book run less run faster.
http://www.amazon.com/Runners-World-Faster-3-Run---Week/dp/1609618025/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1457113381&sr=8-1&keywords=run+less

It doesn't detail a marathon training plan, but it does cover interesting research where runners would only run 4 times a week and make improvements on their mid to long distance race times.

A quick summary is, the most important runs during your week are, the long run, and interval training/speed work.

Running with the Buffalo's. A story about a Colorado college Cross Country Team. It was really good. Even for people who aren't runners, its a good read. Does a great job of explaining the hardships and torture that semi pro runners put themselves through to achieve success. It also has a great sense of achievement for the characters and the reader can feel it each page of the way.

http://www.amazon.com/Running-Buffaloes-Wetmore-University-Colorado/dp/0762773987/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1301885478&sr=8-1

All of Yellowstone is amazingly varied! We did the Ribbon Lake trail on our last day, and it brought us through all of the different landscapes in less than 10 miles. There's also the Boiling River trail, which (if it's open) is a place where you can swim in the river, heated by the geyser run off. Sentinel Meadows brought us to the most amazing geysers and waterfalls, too.

We bought the Falcon guide, and it was great. Cell service is spotty, and when our planned trails were unexpectedly closed we were able to use it to find backups, as well as navigate the actual trails.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0762772549?keywords=falcon%20guide%20yellowstone&qid=1457027586&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1

I'm a fan of Daniels' Running Formula. I'd suggest picking up a copy and following the Red or Blue plan for a season, then trying the 5-10K Training plan. Joining a running club would also be a good option. Good luck!

I second dinot2000's comment. Split your time between the two parks. Also, I'd recommend staying in more campsites (two, or three, maybe four?). Yellowstone and Teton are big BIG parks, and summer traffic is horrendous. Staying in one spot all week will really limit or access to the park.

There are a bunch of day hikes that are manageable for young children, and the visitor services provide many fun activities for children as well (google Junior Rangers and Ranger led hikes, fishing, rafting, horse rides, carriage rides, ect). I'd recommend picking up this book. It breaks down the hikes into quadrants, and then into difficulty. Each hike includes a detailed description. It's the best yellowstone book I've found.

That early in the season some roads still may be closed (Dunraven Pass, Beartooth Highway) But if they're not, I definitely recommend taking a ride up those roads. The view is spectacular.

Feel free to ask any questions. I've lived inside and near the park for years.

Running three days a week and cross-training at least two is the basis behind the book Run Less, Run Faster. The authors have you doing speed work on a track instead of the hills you're running, but you're fairly close to the "FIRST 3-plus-2" programme already. The book is not well-regarded by others on /r/running (in spite of the fact that the authors did studies which show it's effective) but I'm about twelve weeks into their "novice marathon" programme and it's treating my injury-prone legs very well.

You don't need to buy the book, the high points is that the two days a week of intense cardio will pretty much compensate for the aerobic base you normally achieve with extra miles at an easy pace.

Oh, and be sure not to do your long runs too fast. Run Less, Run Faster has them faster than most plans, it usually has you running them at only 9 to 28 seconds per kilometre slower than your marathon pace. But 6:30/km is only 7 seconds slower than your marathon pace for a 4:30 finish.

I'd recommend getting this this book. It shows you how to set up an entire training plan based on your preferred distance, and the author has two PhDs in physiology.
His philosophy is the least amount of effort for the greatest amount of improvement.

Hansons Marathon Method: Run Your Fastest Marathon the Hansons Way https://www.amazon.com/dp/1937715485/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_MC1QzbJFVENZQ

This is easy to follow and myself and some friends have had success with it.

Runner's world. Ugh. Stay away from that garbage, and definitely don't pay for anything from them. You won't get to sub 3 that way.

I know plenty of people use Pfitzinger (you'll see references to Pfitz 18/55 or Pfitz 18/70- 18 weeks, 55 or 70 miles a week). His book is only 14 bucks.

Also, I don't know if there are rules here against linking to letsrun, but there is some good stuff there about training & marathon training (more so in the past...these days, there's more garbage than good training advice).

Marathon training

Key marathon workouts from a Canova training program

It depends on your goal. You have plenty of time to train properly for a December Marathon, if you desire the challenge of moving up in distance. On the other hand, some people prefer to work on their speed at shorter races before moving up in distance. That's less common these days, but it's a legitimate strategy.

Higdon, Pfitzinger, and Hanson have good books that offer training plans. You could do well with any of them.

I have been told Higdon plan is not the best for a BQ time. I am currently trying for BQ as well and have been using Pfitzinger 70/18 plan. It's really rough because the first week you start is 53 miles. It tops out at 70mpw which is more than I have ran in a week before. I have been told maybe people have either lowered their time significantly or BQ'd using his plan.

If you are interested, here is an idea how the plan works. To get more in depth about his workouts (which ones are tempo and how fast to run on certain runs) I highly recommend his book. I've been running for about 4 years and learned so much after reading it.

Googled

Also, if anyone is interested in learning more about vo2 max stuff and/or especially running training, I highly recommend you check out Jack Daniels' Running Formula (the physiologist not the distiller). He lays out all that stuff pretty well and it's very readable.

Former 400: 52, 800: 156, 1609: 427 runner here.

I'm guessing your season starts in about March so I wouldn't make any big changes. Running miles in the morning can be useful if you're prepared for it. I'd be interested in what your mileage is before recommending doing morning runs.

Calisthenics is a great idea, getting more speed is always a plus. Coach jay johnson is great for strength training for running. http://coachjayjohnson.com/

I'd make the calisthenics apart of your weight lifting routine. Also be careful with the weight lifting if you are inexperienced. Lifts that are good for the 800 are important to do properly. Squats, cleans etc. I'd stick to box jumps, weighted step ups, calf raises, air squats, lunges (weighted or not weighted), push ups/pull ups.

Sleep, i'm sure you've heard it but this is pivotal.

Stretching is another one that can get overlooked.

I wouldn't do anything to crazy 2 months out. But after your season is over I'd take a look at some different training books. Jack Daniels book or peter coe's book and take some advice from those.

https://www.amazon.com/Winning-Running-Successful-Racing-Training/dp/1852239972
https://www.amazon.com/Daniels-Running-Formula-3rd-Jack-ebook/dp/B00F0X7U2S/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1485570976&sr=1-1&keywords=daniels+running+formula

To be honest, its not a great plan.

You would be better off buying a copy of 'Daniel's running forumula'
and working through his general fitness plans - they all have a colour - white, red, blue, gold. The red and blue plans look like this

1.) Everything I'm taking is from this book.

http://www.amazon.com/Healthy-Intelligent-Training-Principles-Lydiard/dp/1841263117/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1382049219&sr=1-1&keywords=lydiard

2.) According to this book, when you run too fast for your current fitness level, your body produces lactic acid which puts your body in a state of "Acidosis." This acidosis negatively affects your aerobic endurance and the rate that your muscles recover.

So, that doesn't mean it's bad to run faster than aerobic speed, it just means that you can only train at hard, fast paces for a limited amount of time before it makes you less fit. I had two team mates that ran an 18x400 with a 1 minute rest and they averaged 64 seconds per 400...they ran 4:42, and 4:44 in the 1600 season. In contrast, in 2011 I saw Sam Chelenga do 12x400 at 65 seconds just a few weeks before winning nationals.

I'm trying to condense a lot of physiology into the basic idea that you need to practice being relaxed while running fast and hard in training, so that you have an extra gear to give in your races.

I can't much comment on minimal bike touring, but I can suggest this book by Ray Jardine. It details his method for hiking the US triple crown (about 12,000 km) with something like a 10 pound base weight.



He suggests things like a tarp instead of a tent, a quilt instead of a sleeping bag, and dozens of other things. Might be worth a read for some ideas.

Advanced Marathoning is dense with great information!

The first 2/3 of the book covers everything from mitochondria and glycogen to heart rate ranges for various types of training runs to how much water your stomach can digest over time and how to drink on the run. An endless number of gems really, I love to just open the book up and read a page and see what I learn.

The last 1/3 is the various training schedules based on your weekly miles...up to 55/week, up to 75/week, and beyond.

Ive bought other running books but this is the first one that was full of information you don't naturally encounter on the web.

$13 at Amazon

If you’re a fan of sweat elite, I could also recommend you look to the NOP (I know, unpopular opinion) training logs, it’s quite the opposite. Their sample week is something like . Additionally, training for a marathon, and training more specifically for 10-mi and down are two different things.

Also, the easy pace isn’t an indicator of race performance, obviously. It’s an indicator of ability to handle work volume (see Daniels , Hansons , Heinonen & Heinonen , Fixx , and especially Noakes ), which actually supports your statement about the intersection between speed and endurance (threshold runs, tempo-oriented intervals, etc - is at least what I’m assuming you’re talking about).

Furthermore, as I stated in an above comment, this is casual pace. I could tape a one-person podcast at these paces. Granted, because I’m running the audio quality wouldn’t be that great; but these paces feel like a trot. I’m painfully bored, and barely exerting. I’m never above an 11RPE on the 6-20 scale.

Thank you for the notes and article recommendation, though.

EDIT: All About Road Racing link addition.

Once you can run for 30 mins straight you are ready to start a 15 week program to run a marathon, (26.2 miles) for reals!

This book is a great next step.

1 - I just finished Running for Fitness (recommended on the wiki). What is a peak as in the program here? Is this the same as a tapering phase? If so then what's happing here between the peak and the taper?

2 - According to Running for Fitness you can run a 5k or 10k just about every weekend. Since you tend to reduce mileage towards the end of a program would I continue that reduced mileage if I want to continue racing every 2-3 weeks or so? How about 1-2 months?

3 - Is Running Formula a good book to learn about running 5k and 10k (I plan to really only run these)? Any other recommendations?

I’m not the FKT holder, I reposted this from r/ultralight. In the comments of the original thread, he does go into his training routine and mentions this book.

That said, I am embarking on my own E2E in a couple days so you can wish me luck!

I would suggest that you use a plan, it will help you not overdo, something quite common when you start running.

I've used Hanson marathon program (https://www.amazon.fr/Hansons-Marathon-Method-Renegade-Fastest/dp/1934030856). There's plenty of others

It has good info and the programs are achievable. In my case, I shaved off 30 minutes from my usual time on marathon. The biginner plan is good too

when you train for a marathon, the fact that you're fine to do more one day doesn't mean you should. It's a construction, you build up capacities, speed, strengh, endurance... Rest and easy days are part of your training.

For example, If you do an interval run, something that improve your maximum speed, the next day, you shouldn't do a long run, otherwise, you'll just hurt yourself. But instead, do an easy slow run

Also, if you have knee problems, check if your shoes are right for the job or if they're dead.

When I did my first race, I was 110kilos, my shoes were for some guy weighting 70... It didn't end well

I definitely recommend reading their book . Even if you end up going with a different plan, the book has very valuable information on the different types of workout and the science behind each of them.

I'm not an expert by any means, but I have read a lot, so I will give you some of my thoughts based on my readings. However, I highly recommend you research this yourself, and thus draw your own meanings. My two favourite books are Road Racing for Serious Runners by Pete Pfitzinger and Daniels' Running Formula by Jack Daniels.

For your "high quality" long runs, Pftizinger recommends doing them twice out of every three long runs (so take it easier every 3rd week). His quality long run is the progression run, where you start ~1:30 slower than your marathon pace and end the run ~45s slower than your marathon pace.

Daniels in his half marathon training plan has a number of different quality long runs. One is 10% of your weekly mileage at marathon pace, while another is a variety of intervals of easy, marathon, and threshold pace.

As a word of advice, don't do your long runs at your half marathon pace. Generally, tempo runs are run at 15k-half marathon pace and you would never do a tempo run for that long. Doing your long runs too hard will force a longer recovery, and your other workouts will suffer (according to Pfitz).

Check out Daniel's Running Formula, it's what my coach used and it felt pretty effective to me at least.

I would suggest a lot of Interval paced training, assuming you already have a strong base to work with. Speed workouts when it counts of course, but from what I remember, Interval pace is the bread and butter of mid-distance events like the 800.

It never hurts to add a faster day a week if you feel up to it - and that can be the 4th short run OR the middle section of a longer day - but mostly I meant to simply add more easy mileage. You can look at Higdon as linked above, or even some of the more advanced, structured plans; those though you'd need to work up to consistently running probably 25-30 MPW over 5 days per week before jumping on to them.