(Part 2) Reddit mentions: The best router its

Sorry it took so long to reply. Been busy in the shop.

Plywood. Love or hate it, right? There is nothing inherently wrong with using plywood. Plywood makes fantastic drawer bottoms. I have a big chunk of it in the middle of the top of the coffee table I'm building. I am even using it for door panels in the built-in closet I'm also working on. In each of these instances the edges of the plywood is completely concealed. Before the thought crosses your mind, slapping a 1/4" thick strip of hardwood does not conceal the edge. It looks like a piece of veneered plywood with a hardwood strip glued on. No finishing tricks will ever make it look good. I've tried. Oh how I have tried.


There are tricks to using plywood so nobody knows. For lower-grade furniture I have built for friends, I have used the hot-melt glue edgebanding. I only use it for painted pieces, because whatever they say the veneer is, it isn't and it will never match the walnut or cherry plywood. Unless you spend hours using tints and dyes to get it to match. Your time is money, so it would have been cheaper to just use solid wood. If you have a perfectly dialed in tablesaw, and have some serious balls, you can use a dado blade to hog out the plywood in-between the outer veneer layers. Modern ply uses 1/128th or maybe 1/64th" thick veneer, so you have very tight tolerances to work with. And they can't support any weight, so you have to MacGuyver some way of supporting the plywood while you do this. But then you glue in a strip of hardwood and it is nearly invisible. Or, you can do what I do and cheat.


I use plywood for building drawer boxes all the time. For the shop. I always use a dado to hold the plywood drawer bottom. This guy's use of a plywood drawer box with a luan bottom on what is portrayed as a piece of fine furniture detracts from the piece aesthetically so much that McIKEA crap looks like a Maloof original. I would have use solid maple sides 3/4" thick with a 1/2" thick front and back of maple, and maple ply in the bottom. All untreated. I'd route a 3/8" deep dado 1 1/2" wide on the drawer box front to back, and centered. On the inside of the drawer cavity I'd mount a 3/8" thick maple strip, just a smidge under 1 1/2" thick on each side. Wax both the groove in the drawer and the rail with a good wax like Renaissance Wax, and call it a day. That would look a million times better than the cheap Chinese drawer slide.


If you are starting woodworking, go to antique shops and ask permission to look at how older pieces of furniture were built. They didn't have plywood back in the 1800's and they had dressers, chests, tables, etc. as wide as could be. The name of that game is wood movement. Here is a 3m video by some dude on wood movement. Here is a calculator from Fine WoodWorking that you can use to figure out how much wood will move. I've built a Dining Table, and to accommodate the seasonal wood movement, I used breadboard ends (glued the middle 2", each end free to expand/contract) and attached it to the frame the same. (Screwed in the middle, and figure-8's on the corners.

Onto Dominoes. Full disclosure, I think 90%+ of Festool is overpriced plastic crap. Floating tennons are damn cool, and if I cannot jury-rig a horizontal mortiser, I might buy one. In this case, he has to use a floating tennon because the miter joint isn't working. So before you drop $1500+ on the latest plastic do-dad stop. Pull your head out of your butt and think. Maybe a miter is not the best joint for what I want to do... A 1/8" hardwood spline would have been a better choice than dominoes. Those floating tennon thingys are not cheap. A domino would be one of the last tools i'd buy. There are much better places to spend your money.


>A miter vs a dovetail should be mainly in aesthetics in the end right?

Nope. A miter has zero mechanical strength - the only thing holding it together is wood glue. With plywood only a half of the wood is a long grain to long grain joint, which is the strongest glue joint. Also, unless you have your tools dialed in perfectly, it is really hard to get two perfect 45^o joints. A miter does have the advantage of hiding all endgrain. A dovetail is self-squaring and provides a lot of glue surface. Also, because of how the dovetail is assembled, the grain on both pieces run in the same direction, so seasonal wood movement will not blow the joint apart.


Although it does show end-grain, the dovetail is almost universally seen as a hallmark of fine furniture. You can control where you see the end grain if you use half-blind dovetails. For this piece, I would attach the top (pins) to the sides (tails) with half-blind dovetails. this way, the top is unmarred by the tails' end-grain. I'd probably just use full dovetails to attach the bottom. The grain of all 4 sides would run left <-> right and up <-> down. This way, seasonal movement would only make the piece stick out from the wall 1/8" more or less depending on the season.


>Plus why is it better to use chisels? That to me sounds kinda snobby.

Chisels are not snobby. I am firmly in the middle of the Normite versus Neanderthal argument. I use power tools and hand tools alike. Some operations are best suited to one or the other, but there are no absolutes when you work with a once-living medium. Sometimes my random-orbital sander is the best way to get a piece ready to finish, and other times it just makes a mess of the delicate and wild grain of a burl. So I use a #80 scraper.


Every woodworker should have a decent set of chisels. I have a set of Marples, but it looks like they were bought out by Irwin. This looks like a good set for the money All 8 for $100 sounds like a good deal to me. I have the Narex mortise chisels and the cranked-neck paring chisels and they are more than adequate for what I use them for. Those paring chisels are just fucking awesome for cleaning out glue from the inside of joints.


Every woodworker should also have a #5 bench plane, and a low-angle block plane. I got my Stanley #5 for $5 at a flea market. Cleaning it up and sharpening the blade took ~45 minutes. I can cut a shaving that is too thin to measure with fractional calipers. Veritas planes are really nice, but $300 for only a marginal improvement over my $5 Stanley?


A set of scrapers will run you $20. If you don't have strong hands when you start using them, you bet your ass you will when you are done. A #80 is just a fancy holder for a larger scraper. Those are rare as hell at flea markets. I've only seen one, and I bought it for $20.


I hope this has helped you out. The things that have helped me the most are:

1. Fine Wood Working - I read it religiously. I study the gallery and read every article.
   
   
2. New Yankee Workshop - Nahm Abrams began this show as a carpenter, and ended it as a furnituremaker. I live on the South Shore, so his Yankee frugality - building his own tool stations - strikes a chord w/ me.
   
   
3. WoodWorks hosted by David Marks. - Although I am not a fan of contemporary design, his show helped me a lot. I didn't have the balls to try tung oil until I watched this show. He uses it on everything.
   
   
4. Woodnet forums A bunch of friendly peeps on a woodworking forum.
   
   
   I have seen both shows up on youtube and are popular re-runs on cable tv. Especially on the DIY channels in the wee hours of the morning. Set your DVR.
   
   Damn this got long. Send me a PM if you need advice. I cannot guarantee I'll respond right away, but I will respond.
   
   edit: fixed some formatting

They're a fortune. No one builds a solid desk out of ebony, and few do it out of black walnut. I've done this math. I'm sitting at an Ikea Jerker desk with a 3'x4', 3/4" thick top. If I were to remake the top out of Home Depot's cheapest hardwood - poplar - it would be on the order of $50. If I were to go with ebony gaboon from Woodworker's Source (decent online prices), it would be around $2600. Remember, that's just for a 3'x4' rectangle.

However, I'd never build out of ebony, even if I could afford it. All species that fall under the ebony umbrella are rare and dwindling in numbers, because of rapid population growth in the areas where it grows, the fact that it tends to grow in poorer areas where people are often more concerned with where their next meal is coming from than in conservation, which leads to overharvesting, and the fact that most ebony takes between 60 and 200 years to grow to usable size. It is not being reponsibly managed, and there are groups, conservation movements, scientific studies, published papers, and much else revolving around what to do about the fact that this resource is highly threatened. A lot of woodworking stores won't supply it, or can't, legally. In fact, I've actually never seen ebony in anything close to the size needed to build a desk. I have a few 1' long 2x2s.

Walnut is a far better option. My desk top would only be over $100, instead of over $2500 :) Walnut, from what I've seen, has a hugely varying BF price (board foot - a unit of volume equal to 144"³, e.g. a 1" thick 12"x1' board). I've seen it anywhere from $6+ to $10+ per BF, or on sale for about $4/BF. You can probably find it <$4/BF at a sawmill in a walnut-rich area. As rare as I find it to be here in LA, and the fact that it's being ravaged all over the western US by Thousand Cankers Disease (thankfully, most of the US' black walnut trees seem unaffected so far, in the eastern half of the US), I still see people talking about it in woodworking forums like it's a weed where they live, and many of them use it as firewood!

If you do make it out of walnut, you can cut costs considerably, and save a few walnut trees with what are called secondary woods - i.e. woods for the interior, unseen part that are much more affordable and commonplace. You can see in the pics of this walnut desk build that they used poplar, baltic birch ply, and some oak ply for the interior.

As for the beveled edge, that's a tricky one. The top is too big for a router table (unless you build or buy many rolling supports - but still, awkward). The bit you'd need is far too big for most routers. You'll probably be building up the top out of separate planks glued together, so that gives you the ability to use a router table on a single plank which you'd then glue to the front. For bits, you might be able to find raised panel bits like you want, but more likely you'll want to go for a table top bit, or more likely, as most table top bits impart fancy edges (like this), you'll want a handrail bit. Grizzly makes this one and this larger one. There are also versions from Amana, CMT, Yonico, and Freud.

Definitely research the quality of those, and determine the actual sizes before you buy, as it's hard to tell from an image. I have no affiliation or preferences here. I've only worked with Freud, and only 1 or 2 bits briefly, and they were fine, but so have been pretty much all router bits I've ever used. I can feel the difference in a quality bit, in that wood just seems to slide past with little effort. This is likely a case of better quality steel sharpened more lovingly. I've broken a handful of Ryobi bits, but in fairness, they were 1/4" shank, and I was pushing them pretty hard. It's really hard to break these 1/2" shank. In fact, I've never heard of it happening.

I keep feeling there's a clever way to do this with something like a wide moulding plane.

If you have a router, you can use a router-planer jig. The only annoying part about this is making sure your jig is level and your board is planned out, but it's very important. Here's a random example from youtube https://youtu.be/Z9ECXZulTDU?t=12 but you can find plans all over the internet.

But lets say you got yourself a jointer or planer - because each are different and have their own benefits and drawbacks; for example I prefer a jointer to a planer for many reasons - what happens if the board becomes super twisted or crazy cupped during your drying process? What happens if you don't have enough space to plane that super long/wide board but your project requires the length or width of board? Aren't jointers and planers expensive, and require lots of maintenance? Aren't jointers and planers huge machines that take up valuable shop space? Don't they leave nasty marks at the end that you'll have to sand off anyway? This is where the router jig will come in.

• A router jig is safer than a jointer or a planer. You can more safely shim up sides on twisted or cupped boards and plan your final board more easily. Since your hands and body are moving towards spinning blades with a jointer or planer you're much less safe than using a router jig if the piece goes crazy on you. With the router jig, your hands and body are safely away from the cutting implement.
  
  
• For larger pieces, you can simply build a larger jig rather than cutting the piece down and re-gluing later, buying a larger machine, working unsafely to "get the project started", trying to figure out another router or planer solution, or infeed/outfeed table solution. The size of your router jig is determined by you, large or small, and you can just move it out of the way back to the side of the shop (or hanging up, or disassembled!) when not in use.
  
  
• A router jig is cheaper than a jointer or planer. If you already have a router, all you need is a larger flat cut bit (like this and a way to sharpen it. Buy a couple just in case. When one is done, just get another and keep working.
  
  
• There's virtually no maintenance on a router jig. If you build it out of metal, it will always be square. The large flat cut bit on a router takes less time and requires less work to sharpen when dulled. If you're sharpening a jointer or planer blade, then you've got to disassemble the entire machine to get at it, and reassemble (ensuring it's flat and square!) when done sharpening.
  
  
• A jointer or planer uses a cutter that leaves marks at the end that need to be sanded, scraped, or planed away. Your router jig will also leave marks that need to be sanded, scraped, or planed away; what I'm saying is you'll have to plane, sand, or scrape anyway with a jointer or planer so why not just build it into your board preparation process from the start and work with something safer, cheaper, and more extendable.

I’m using Kool Mist for just about everything and I’ve been happy with it. It’s cheap, works well and doesn’t leave a huge mess. If I could run a proper flood coolant system I would, but due to being an open machine I can’t.

The bath is super easy, it’s just a bit more involved to set up. If I had an enclosed machine, I’d be inclined to run it with flood coolant every time, but I’d be worried about that getting into the machine. Getting that powder on your ways is fucking terrible and can destroy a machine pretty quickly if you’re not cleaning everything after each time you cut CF. I think the extra time for setup is worth it, but I’m not running production or having to hold super tight tolerances in most cases.

I’ve mainly been doing 3mm CF using 1/8” end mills. I’m pretty sure I’m using what you’re describing. I get the coated carbide diamond pattern end mills from Amazon. (HQMaster 10Pcs CNC Rotary Burrs Set End Mill Engraving Bits PCB Milling Bits 1/8'' Shank Titanium Coated Tungsten Steel Corn Milling Cutter Tool for SMT Mold Plastic Fiber Wood Carbon Insulation Board https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07G3Z5FJ7/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_G7YTCbMCMRXQ1). They’re incredibly cheap, last pretty long and give a surprisingly good finish. It doesn’t feel right that they work so well.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ppmfdrz532wbtu4/Photo%20Apr%2017%2C%204%2054%2020%20AM.jpg?dl=0

Here’s the part I cut last night. I’m very happy with those end mills. Especially considering I was using a 400 watt spindle slapped onto the Fryer’s head ahah.

Fair enough. To be honest, I'm not an experienced or skilled woodworker. The raised panels are easy if you have proper router bit.

I'm not a purest and don't mind pocket screws for this type of thing. The only place you ever see them is when you open the drawers and if I were smarter I could have hidden too. I wasn't setting out to win any awards with this dresser - I just wanted to see what I could do and I'm pretty happy with the results given the amount of effort. I know that pocket screws will never be "accepted" as a valid type of join, but for the mild hobbyist like me they work great. I would never have attempted a project like this if I didn't have my Kreg Jig.. it just makes things easier. I'm sure I'll eventually try some dovetails or box joints, but until then - pocket screws for me!

> How much play in your motor shaft is there? How much runout is there on the bit at the collet? How much at the end of the bit? How much at the front and back of the collet pocket?

Enough that I can move it about .5(?) mm side to side with my finger. When I try to make a dot on my copper clad board I get a circle that's roughly the same diameter. What's a collet pocket?

> Ideally there should be zero play in your shaft, but on cheaper stuff that isn't always the case. (Like, literally zero: bearings should have some preload from installation.)

Yeah, this is a super cheap motor. I'm using one of these.

> Other possibilities: Are you using the right size and type of collet, properly installed? Is everything clean and free of dirt, dust, debris, etc.?

Yeah, I'm sure I'm using the proper collet, but I've ordered another set just to be sure. This is the collet set I have, and and these are the bits I'm using. I know these have been successfully used by others. I chose my parts off this home brew machine, but actually designed my own setup.

I bought a cheap set from Kseibi just to be able to experiment with a range of bits as you say, without breaking the bank, but I hardly use them; I think I've only used one straight bit. (Note also that they're metric, which is hard to see initially.) They are probably decent for the price, but when I had a specific need I bought the bit I needed, like a rabbeting bit or undersized plywood dado cutters, usually either a Diablo from the local Home Depot or Freud from Amazon (same company, and because they had good ratings/price combination).

I think you'll also do better buying them as many recommend buying other tools: decide on a project and buy what you need to make it. If you have a project where you want to biscuit join, buy a slot-cutting bit, and so forth.

I think I understand you and like the general idea. Do you mean something like a T-Slot bit? I'm not super familiar with bits as I still need to purchase a router.

http://www.amazon.com/Yonico-14188-T-Slot-T-Track-Slotting/dp/B00KZM1R8W/ref=pd_cp_hi_3

I'm not sure how to attractively do the corners as these bits start from the end. I'd love a rail that wraps all the way around. Maybe I could leave the extra slot openings exposed, as I could just slide the accessory on from the side.

If I read correctly, the accessories would essentially have a t on the back of them that can snug into the slot? Would you recommend the backs of accessories really be the full 5" height? I could see that being a bit cumbersome to pick up, move around and store. Maybe super useful for a full book holding shelf, but not needed for a cupholder.

I'm also concerned about wear and tear on the locking t part.

Love this idea though.

Wow yes I think that’s it. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. I found this. Pretty sure I’m buying a wood shop now to save me 3500 on doors in this remodel.

My suggestions.

1. Fill in the nicks and pits.
   
   Use [wood filler] (http://www.lowes.com/pd_188554-63-E8150_0__?productId=50015676&Ntt=wood+filler&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dwood%2Bfiller&facetInfo=) on the surface and edge.
   
   
2. Get a clean smooth edge
   
   Get a trim router and a [1/4 roundover bit] (http://www.amazon.com/MLCS-6352-4-Inch-Radius-Router/dp/B002SW2N1W/ref=sr_1_3?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=undefined&sr=1-3&keywords=1%2F4+radius+roundover+bit) and rout around the edge. What that will do is get rid most of the nicks and give it a nice round edge. Be sure to use a scrap piece of wood to set your depth on your roundover bit so it just gives you a rounded edge. This will give you a clean edge all around.
   
   
3. Crackle finish
   
   Get two colors of paint and some elmers glue. The stuff you used in school. Or even the white glue from the dollar store. Apply your base coat and let it dry. Then brush over the base coat with the glue and let stand till it gets tacky. Finally use your second color of paint and brush over the glue. As the glue dries it will create a crackle finish. You can then put on a clear coat if you wish or leave as is.
   
   

You my friend have some big cojones to go at wenge with a rasp. The rests look like they came out very well but man that must have been some work! Much easier with a router and something like this but maybe its just because I am old and lazy! Great work!

I actually started out with a bit set from Skil, that I got on clearance at Lowes. I think I paid about $80 and it had 30 different bits in a nice little wood and glass case. they aren't super high quality and can't do everything, but it allowed me to learn and make quite a few really cool things without breaking the bank. These aren't my "forever" bits, but the cost savings was huge and I still use quite a few of them. as I find things I can't do with that set, or one gets too dull to continue using I just buy a quality one.

I know that goes against the normal advice in this sub, but it worked very well for me so I have to recommend giving it a try.

edit: a quick search on amazon yielded this, which is the same set I have. none of the bits have broken though many did dull rather quickly. I have a drawer full of higher quality bits now, but each one of them costs about a third to half of what this set did. The set was a better value for a beginner, IMO.

I have these, and have used them to good effect, but do not use them very often. Could be used on your oak planks.

I also recommend the Kreg jig. As a simple home handyman and DIYer, that I do use very often.

Edit: Actually I suppose the v-notch bits wouldn't work for a workbench surface. Maybe rather something like this, with the leftover groove trimmed and facing down...? Probably simpler to just cut a smooth single piece top, and mount it to the oak if you want that 1" thickness. That top could then be replaced over the years as desired.

the 8825 really shine on big motors at 2A. If you are aiming for 1.5A the 8825 is not really going to be ultra efficient. I agree that 1.5A is a good power level for a Hypercube. You should use .9 degree motors as they are really better suited for that AMP range. They will cost slightly more, but really negligible (maybe 1-2$ extra per stepper). Aim for something like these https://www.amazon.com/NEMA17-Degree-Hybrid-Stepper-Router/dp/B077372DHP/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1518064001&sr=8-5&keywords=.9+degree+stepper+motor Obviously you can find them cheaper. You want your steppers rated slightly higher then you intend to run them for. Dont overthink it. 2A steppers will work well too. When in doubt its always OK to get a bigger motor then what you need.

Bits to get you through your next couple of projects, and an edge guide if your router didn't come with one.

For cutting dados, choose a bit that matches the material thickness of your shelves. Keep in mind that plywood is not a full 3/4". It can be 22/32, 23/32, or 18mm depending on what you buy.

For roundovers, I like this set, but I lived for a long time with just a single 1/4" roundover bit before I bought it.

When bit shopping, I usually look for Whiteside bits, and fall back on Freud Industrial (not Diablo) if I can't find what I need. Both are relatively easy to find on Amazon and relatively impossible to find at the home center.

It's also generically useful to have a rabbeting bit, and a couple of straight bits (I use 1/2" and 1/4" the most).

to expand on this.

you'll want to buy a cheap powered router, a straight bit, a couple of clamps and HEARING and EYE PROTECTION.
i can't stress those last two enough.

once you've done that,

1. you'll want to install a wide-ish straight bit into your router.
   
   
2. mark off the area you want to route (make the marks on the waste side, where you're cutting away, or the other side, but be consistent).
   
3. set the router so the bit won't cut, but you can see it in the flat shoe on the bottom. you want to line the edge of the bit to your line, then mark where the edge of the router is.
   
4. you want to clamp your metal brackets to that line as a straight edge and guide.
   
5. don your eye and ear protection. it's going to get loud.
   
6. take a ruler or use the built in guides to set the bit to the depth you want (1/8")
   
7. double check your clamps are tight and the edge guide is straight. measure both sides of it, don't eyeball.
   
8. place the router on the work with the bit hanging off the edge. then turn it on while steadying it with your hands.
   
9. cut along the guide and any remaining bits from the edge until you have a nice level area for your bracket.
   
   i recommend practicing on a bit of extra wood. get the idea down and then do it on your final piece.

I have used this Yonico 1.5" bit for cutting boards with great success

http://amzn.com/B00KZM20GU

I like your method for trimming the veneer from the speaker holes, maybe kind of overkill though.

In the past, I've used this bit:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000K2G69M

It only needs 1/8" clearance. https://i.imgur.com/BqDFW4i.jpg

As long as you let the router do the work and don't force it against the wood, it works like a charm.

I've had luck with shallow passes using a dish bit. Not my idea, some redditor who will get no credit who probably got the suggestion from someone else. The radius means little to no chipping/tear out (so I'm told and so I've experienced). I use a 1/4" radius, 1 1/4" diameter dish bit. Works great with end grain. https://www.amazon.com/Freud-Radius-Carving-Shank-99-026/dp/B00004T7M5

knife and then sanding could work, or something like this if your recess is 1/8" deep or more.

Which design is that looks like RS drivers?

I primarily use 1/4 & 1/2" roundover bits to smooth over the edges of our cutting boards. I also have:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004T7M5/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (for putting handles on the bottom of the board)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004T7DM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (for juice trays)

And this bit for mortises based on the Wood Whisperer's method of creating them:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004T7K1/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It's a Bosch 1617EVS - 2-1/4HP

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004TKHV/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


The bit is a Yonico 1-1/2"

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KZM20GU/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It worked well but I did have to remove a lot of material to get it flat and ended up making to passes per side.

Any decent bottom cleaning router bit. I use [this one](Yonico 14976 1-1/2-Inch Diameter Bottom Cleaning Router Bit 1/2-Inch Shank https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KZM20GU/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_vikVCb82PFRBK) most of the time.

http://www.amazon.com/Freud-18-113-1-Inch-Diameter-Router/dp/B00004T7DI

I use a cnc spoilboard bit for the replaceable carbide cutters.

Before that I used this bit and it worked well, but sharpening it all the time got annoying. I've also used this bit before and got really good results but it takes a lot longer with the narrower width.

If you have a lower HP router, stay under 1 1/2" diameter.