(Part 2) Reddit mentions: The best car battery accessories

My last reply and I'll drop it, but for reference today I need to buy 2 booster cables to hook up my marine battery to my inverter for my backyard solar.

$28 at walmart
$29 at canadian tire
$25 at Amazon + free same day delivery

I'd actually be excited if you could point me to a place that I can consistently save money on - as I told you, I have nearly 7,000 posts on RFD over 10 years and used to obsessively hunt down & get the "super deals", it actually helped me to create a business focused on being the lowest in Canada, respecting peoples $ and using that as our value ad (which has lead to lots of success with consumers, and industry credibility for corporates & gov't contracts)

If you want to get technical we can add in my ebates % back too, I am also an amazon associate for affiliate sales, but I only really use that when I'm referring people at work to buy tech purchases (like hard drives or streaming units)

You're not talking to a blind fan boy here, I'll put my experiences with this up against anyone - I do the research. I obsess over shit like this, thats WHY i am passionate about prime driving shit to me, because it IS a huge value.

What're you asking now? Are you saying that the terminal posts you're connecting the clamps to are corroded? I mean that's not good, it can result in high resistance. But the clamps usually have such high force that if you're clamping them onto any normal terminal post and you give the clamp a good wiggle so the teeth can bite through any crud, you ought to be able to get definitely sub-milliohm connection. You out to be able to get say <100uOhm (0.0001) if you have solid, high quality clamps that have a continuous copper/brass conduction path all the way from the cable to the jaws with no steel in the way.

Also there's a tendency for high resistance connections in really high amperage circuits to "fix themselves". If you have more than about 0.5 V of drop across a connection, the tips of the contacts start to melt, and that'll usually allow the contact to bed together better, and conduct better. That's from Slade's textbook on contacts by the way.

With jumper cables it's really going to be more about the wire gauge, provided that you have good clamps and you wiggle them a little. They sell absolute shit jumper cables if you don't know what you're buying. I mean look at this crap. 8 gauge? 12 feet? Are you kidding? 8 gauge is 0.63mOhm per foot. Total of 24 feet of wire in those cables, so 15 mOhm. That's garbage. At 100A you're dropping 1.5V. At 500A you're dropping 7.5V.

You do have to be a little more clear about the construction of your battery bank and charge source to get a perfectly correct answer. But the short answer is, no: if you have good clamps you ought to be able to do a hundred amps or two with no sweat.

These? Hell no. Copper plated steel? Get bent.

These? Maaaaybe. If they're not lying that they're actually copper. Looks brass plated, which is OK if it's really copper. But pretty thin looking crap, still. Also note how in both of these products only one of the clamp jaws is connected to the wire through copper. The other is on the opposing, steel arm of the clamp and so is completely useless.

Now this is getting warmer (lol well hopefully less warm!). Note the connections to both sides of the clamp, and the clear use of thick copper for the actual jaws. It's a little bit inconvenient to use a Y harness to do that though.

Ahh, now this is getting there for sure. Dual live jaw, and note the braided copper strap connecting the two sides. And brass is harder than copper, and almost as conductive, which is nice.

My favorites are the ones with cast brass jaws and a connecting strap. I would trust those to say 2-300A continuous. But even they don't really live up to their ratings, for continuous duty. I've run them at 600A and had the copper braid turn purple from oxidation/overheating. So always derate something you use for continuous use, when you know that the manufacturers have a tendency to state the best case intermittent use of the product (especially for a jumper where the use is supposed to be intermittent).

Yup, the kit included the wrong tool. Those dies are for the right style of terminal (open-barrel), but completely the wrong size -- they're enormous! You could happily crimp 9.5mm terminals onto 4mm2 wire with the big nest there! The smallest one doesn't look like it's anywhere near small enough for 0.64mm terminals you're using.

If you're not opposed to spending a little more, this is the best hand-crimper ever made for open-barrel terminals. It's non-ratcheting, so you don't have to hassle with adjusting the shut height for different wire gauges, just go until your calibrated wrist says the copper stopped moving. It has an enormous range of nest sizes, able to crimp everything from the minuscule "mini-50" terminals found in certain automotive applications, to the gargantuan 9.5mm beasts in power applications and everything in between. It'll do your Dupont wires (and every other 0.64 terminal) up real nice.

(The one thing it doesn't do is short-crimp terminals like JST's. For those you need a narrow jaw like the Engineer PA-series tools.)

Also, check out the best page on the internet about open-barrel crimp tools, terminals, and quality. I couldn't have written it better myself.

With a budget of $400, I'd start with a small Alpicool for around $200. That's a good price on those, and they sip around 1/2 amp/hour@12v, meaning you'll need at least 36Ah of battery (.5Ax24hx3d).

Bump to 50Ah of usable power, for some wiggle room, and you can pick up something like this for $170.

The only other thing you'll need is wiring. A kit like this has most of what you need, toss in a cheap manual isolator to keep it from draining your starter battery, and you're left with a few crimp connectors and maybe a socket (might as well get a kinda-nice one).

That puts you $10 over-budget, but it'll do everything you asked for and more, and be a nice little setup to expand someday with solar or inverter or whatever. If you can score a cheaper second-hand battery initially, that'll help budget-wise, but I wouldn't bother skimping on anything else except maybe the 12v socket. The one I linked is just a nice feature to have USB and volt meter built-in, so you can reduce cord/adapter clutter if you like, and have an idea where you're at on power reserves, monitoring it manually. Downgrading that to a simple, "dumb" socket would put you within the $400 budget.

I would buy this,

http://www.amazon.com/Slime-COMP03-12-Volt-Inflator-Gauge/dp/B000ET9SAU/ref=sr_1_12?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1448980138&sr=1-12&keywords=slime+air+pump

and

http://www.amazon.com/Slime-2040-A-Tire-Plug-Kit/dp/B000ET9SAA/ref=sr_1_5?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1448980761&sr=1-5&keywords=tire+plug+kit

In the plug kit your really buying those T handles, there nice and wont try to fold into your hand or away from it while you plug the tire. You can buy I think it's 40 plugs stand alone at walmart for around 5 bucks if you find yourself plugging tires that much.

Then buy a metal jar of rubber cement because that little tube is going to work once and get rock hard.

http://www.amazon.com/Slime-1050-Rubber-Cement-oz/dp/B003V9UU66/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1448981382&sr=8-5&keywords=rubber+cement

Any will do that's just what I found on amazon.

That's the same air pump I own except I dont think mine says 300 PSI on the side, I would be extremely surprised if it could actually reach 300 psi but I can tell you for a fact it'll air a tire up in a less than 10 minutes.

http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Cigarette-Lighter-Lengthened-Extension/dp/B00JOY6U7U

This may be worth while as well incase your cigarette lighter doesnt work or blows a fuse you could just clip directly to your car battery.


As far as a phone charger I just mean use a phone charger that plugs in your cigarette lighter, I dont trust those little power bricks. Even if your car battery is "Dead" as in it wont turn your engine over and clicks, it's probably still got more than enough juice to charge your phone and make a call for help.

I would splurge for these nice jumper cables

http://www.amazon.com/Cartman-Booster-Cable-Gauge-Listed/dp/B00VHE76GE/ref=lp_15719941_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1448981135&sr=1-1

That comes up to 132 dollars in my amazon cart, I think that puts you much better off than the alternative you were looking at at a reasonable price.

I lived on a dirt road for years, Holes in my tires were Common and I don't think I ever broke out my spare.

The starter relay is stuck closed. Working properly, that provides power to the solenoid to engage the flywheel and turn the starter when you engage the key to the START position. Power should disconnect when you turn the key out of "START" but it's not going to remove the power if the relay is seized closed.

From the starter, run the POS wire back to the engine bay... that wire will be connected to the starter relay. Tap on that a bit and it may temporarily work correctly again, or disconnect the wires from it completely. With the wires disconnected, try to start... nothing should happen. Then touch the wires together and the van should attempt to start. The starter circuit is disengaged in reverse due to the neutral safety switch, which makes sense.

EDIT: I had the same issue once. I recommend getting one of these for your battery to allow you to quickly and easily disconnect the power when needed: https://www.amazon.com/Ampper-Battery-Disconnect-Isolator-Vehicles/dp/B07JZ9NDH2/ It's just a good little $15 upgrade addon.

Probably becuase there's so much exposed wire. Those terminals and wires should be upgraded like yesterday. Not trying to sound like a dick, but the charging system is one of the most important parts of any vehicle and it needs good tight connections. And a small amount of dielectric grease wouldnt hurt

Get a system like this. Or if you can just buy the terminals and get the crimp rings elsewhere, either way it's a worthwhile upgrade and much cleaner

It depends on the gauge wire you are talking about for I assume your inverter. I type locally run 2/0, so some of these blocks are not designed for that size cable.

Here is a example of a single post that you can crimp lugs to the cable. Put the three wires from the coach on the lug and the new wire from the battery to the post. When you put that many cables on the post you may run into spacing issues so you may need a washer or bolt to evenly stack the lugs.

Here is a example of a four post block. Simple and easy to install.

Finally if you don’t have lugs and want something easy a compact distribution block may help you.

I am not in your area so I can recommend anyone local. Most chain auto parts and home improvement stores don’t carry these types of items in-stock if at all. I send some Amazon links which may help you.

Sure.

• Inverter - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0007NOUBA/
  
  
• 2 x 75Ah batteries - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OZMVI46/
  
  
• Double battery box - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QJ2MBRD/
  
  
• 200amp ANL fuse & fuse holder - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079ZNGCDX/
  
  
• Wiring - 1 pair of 4AWG 1ft & 1 pair of 4AWG 3ft - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071H7D7SM/
  
  
• platform stool to keep equipment safely off the ground - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072KDDS51/
  
  Should be about $750 for lots of runtime, and compatible with any pump that uses 120VAC. The only open question I have is whether the eyeletts on the battery terminals are 3/8" or 5/16" so I know which wiring set to buy. I emailed the company and waiting for a response.
  
  I used this guide to figure out what I wanted to do - https://www.tripplite.com/support/how-to-select-and-install-inverter-charger-for-sump-pump
  
  EDIT: wow thanks for the gold, kind Internet stranger!

For the wire to the starter you just need to buy another cable. There are terminals available that can accept multiple wires such as this one. You'll need to make sure to find one that accepts the stock wire gauge.

I suppose if your stock one is already set up like that then you could splice it together. Just be careful to do a good splice, because that wire is carrying a lot of current.

Everything will need to be grounded or it will not operate. The easiest way to do this is to use a fusebox as you mentioned. The number of items you'll want to power should determine the number of terminals you'll need. Connect your Anderson Powerpole terminals to their corresponding spots on the Blue Sea Systems fuse box (12 terminals with negative because you can always not use some, but you can't add any on the 6 terminal model).

https://www.amazon.com/Goal-Zero-Terminal-Connector-Cable/dp/B00URTHQTC/ref=sr_1_1?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1496442293&sr=1-1&keywords=yeti+1250+terminal+ring

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-Blade-Block/dp/B001P6FTHC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1496442487&sr=8-1&keywords=blue+sea+fuse+box+12

Use a disconnect switch below and a ring connector cable to make sure you don't draw any power when not intended. It will go between your positive leads.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011EYWMDS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/Camco-47453-4-Gauge-Battery-Assembly/dp/B00JGJGCV2/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1496442659&sr=8-9&keywords=4+awg+cable

For the wiring to indidual 12v sources I use copper-clad aluminum because I'm cheap and use 12 gauge (non-awg because it's cheaper and only slightly smaller in gauge diameter) and it hasn't given me any problems because for the price I go a bit bigger than I might need.

https://www.amazon.com/PRIMARY-POWER-GROUND-100FT-ROLLS/dp/B00OU0IIFU/ref=sr_1_6?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1496442827&sr=1-6&keywords=12+gauge+wire

For the fridge though you may want to go to 10 gauge.

https://www.amazon.com/GAUGE-GROUND-PRIMARY-STRANDED-COPPER/dp/B01C7O8166/ref=sr_1_6?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1496442902&sr=1-6&keywords=10+gauge+wire.

Look at the 12v chart below and make sure you're within the range for the length of wire you want to run which I can't imagine you wont be since everything you're describing is super low amp.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/57/22/80/57228076ef240ed796b328a7d6387eac.jpg

Then to connect the equipment to power you can either solder the wires together or use these below to crimp them (crimping video below that). You're wire stripping pliers should have a crimping portion on them already. if not buy the ones in the 4th link.

https://www.amazon.com/Hilitchi-Insulated-Terminals-Electrical-Connectors/dp/B01D8HIQ2K/ref=sr_1_4?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1496443951&sr=1-4&keywords=12-10+gauge+wire+connectors

https://www.amazon.com/Glarks-Electrical-Insulated-Terminals-Connectors/dp/B01E7SY49I/ref=sr_1_11?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1496444024&sr=1-11&keywords=12-10+gauge+wire+connectors

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Svja8zEcKNQ&t=9s

https://www.amazon.com/VISE-GRIP-Multi-Tool-Stripper-Crimper-2078309/dp/B000JNNWQ2/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1496443370&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=wire+stripping+pliers+irwin

You'll then use the terminal rings from the link above (pretty sure that's the correct size ring) to connect the end of those wires to the fuse box on the negative and positive sides. Fuse based on the amps you'll be drawing. Since I think someone somewhere will complain that this is expensive and there are cheaper ways to do it, I set you up on the "new everything" route since I don't think you'll have any of these things and if you're getting a goal zero I don't think price is a limiting factor. Unless you already have a lot of experience with wiring this is the basic version with everything you'll need pre-made as much as possible.

My battery and terminals just looked like that and cleaned it up last weekend.

Take the battery off and use hot water to clean most of the battery up.

Used hot water on my terminals as well.

After that i used a hot water/baking soda mix to neutralize the acid.

Bought a few things off amazon as well:

https://www.amazon.com/Performance-Tool-W147C-Terminal-Cleaning/dp/B004BTV82U/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1520547692&sr=8-3&keywords=battery+terminal+cleaner

https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-22058-Dielectric-Tune-Up-Grease/dp/B000AL8VD2/ref=sr_1_4?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1520547711&sr=1-4&keywords=dielectric+grease

The dielectric grease should help it from getting moisture and corrosion on it again.

I wouldn't make the cables any smaller, I'd try to find a terminal style that fits the cable. Copper wire is very expensive and new terminals are like $5 and easy to change.

With regards to stacking, I don't like doing that. I prefer to crimp a lug to the end of the cable and attach those to the terminals, similar to this: (https://www.amazon.com/Military-Spec-Battery-Terminal-Post/dp/B00X36RILW/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=battery+terminals&qid=1558971029&s=gateway&sr=8-4)

You can also find terminals that accept multiple cables if you just want to poke them in and crimp them down.

At the end of the day, don't overthink it. You want a good connection between the battery post, the terminal, and the cable. There are a few ways to make this happen, and if you get it wrong, the car won't start :D

Good luck!

A Slime 12v Air Compressor or Stop-N-Go Tire Plugging kit (or both together) make a great gift for motorcyclists, as well as motorcycle-specific jumper cables or a jump starting battery.

I have a couple of these installed in line on positive side — between PV and MPPT and between battery and positive bus bar. (Just be sure to never have current flowing into solar charge controller without the battery being connected). Battery Switch, 6V 12V 24V 48V... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HT19T5V?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

In lieu of the switch I have on there, would this be a better alternative?

Edit - The goal is to not have to open the case in order to turn on power. I would also like to leave the inverter in its original state so it could be easily removed and used outside of this unit.

Dual batteries is something on my to-do list, but don't know if it'll ever become a priority. I'm kind-of a budget-minded overlander, and have this dual-battery stuff in my Amazon jeep wish list for "someday"...

M.O.R.E. JKDBT0709 07-11 Jeep JK Dual Battery Tray (I realize you said your's is a '12)
T-MAX 47-3800 Dual Battery System

Nice toy... lol just kidding anyone with a jump pack is better prepared than most for a dead battery. I have a GB150 from NOCO, 4000A, can jump a semi if needed. I run a car dealer and this can jump 30 cars in a row on one charge. Worth every penny

NOCO Boost Pro GB150 4000 Amp 12V UltraSafe Lithium Jump Starter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015TKSSB8/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_a2hDCb0MHECBT

More like a plate of figure 8 shaped noodles. Was pleasing indeed, and quite simple once I pared it down.

New setup is a bit weird (no surprise there).. There's a battery cut-out, so I can totally kill all electronics when needed (parking / maintenance), and only a few things actually run through the normal key switch.

That effectively makes it a two key system; you need the battery cut out "key" to even be able to use the normal key. Wonkey, but it works best for the fuse block I bought (which has a common hot terminal and LEDs that indicate ground faults) and results in a lot less wire between the battery and things that need lots of power. Only the ignition, starter switch, and tail / brake light run through the key switch and its 12g hot lead. Everything else, including any accessories I install, can pull right off a fuse block that hooks to the battery through a big fat 6g wire. That's probably a good thing, since I'll be running dual headlights, probably a light bar as well, maybe an inverter, maybe CB radio, maybe some heated grips, etc.

For the consumer level its basically find the thickest setup you can. I think I have an old set from walmart I got, heavy duty and something like 30 bucks years ago. IDK what I did with them. Cables I always have in my truck are professional ones you would use with a tow truck that are easily 1" thick cables. Those ones can jumpstart some serious stuff.

When buying cables the number is the gauge size of the wire, smaller number is thicker cable. Thicker the cable the more current it can carry and less resistance.

Something along these liens would work well in most cases: https://www.amazon.com/EPAuto-Booster-Jumper-Cables-Travel/dp/B01AXBB2VG/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1480741653&sr=8-12&keywords=jumper+cables+2+gauge

OP needs to go to an auto parts store and pick up a side mount adapter like this. It looks like that spade was wedged in previously.

>I trust these guys a lot

And here you are.

-Lower ball joints seeping grease: They can do that for a while. Your shop doesn't seem to want to replace them though, so.

-Leaking pan gasket: You can afford to have a lot of oil leaking for $350. Are you leaking enough to have to add oil because of the leak between oil changes? No? Then unless you are a Rockefeller (or are damaging the surfaces you park it on) I'd leave it alone.


-Struts and mounts--Because they are 'weak' and the boots are torn. Don't care about the 'torn', but weak? Maybe. Does it drive and handle ok? Are your tires wearing funny?

-Alignment: Yeah, if you do the struts, you might want to align it.

-Battery service: For $50, you can probably disconnect the battery, clean the terminals yourself. Oh, don't forget the corrosion protectors

Basically everyone I know has some version of this in their car for the winter. The bristles are for sweeping snow off your car, and the flat, plastic blade on the other end is for scraping ice off your windshield and windows. Sometimes the blade and bristles are on the same end, and that's fine too. A tool like this is 100% crucial, and if you don't have one handy a credit card/debit card will work in its place although you'll likely ruin the card.

Also the jumper cables are no joke too. If your car battery is old, you might find you have some trouble starting your car in the morning. The engine will be sluggish, especially if the weather is below zero. If it doesn't turn over at all, or if you forget a light on (for some reason this always happens to me in winter), you'll need a set of jumper cables to get your car going again. I'm 100% sure everyone who's lived in MN their whole life has had to get their car jumped before, and I've personally helped 8 or 9 people jump start their car in my 30+ years of living here. The key is the lower the gauge number the better (lower numbered gauge = thicker wire and try to get at least a 6 gauge but preferably a 4 gauge), and the longer the cables the better. You might think 4 gauge and 20 ft is too much. It isn't.

Yep. All of you were right. Battery was toast. Replaced today and spliced in new terminals. Started right up.

Fastronix Military Spec Battery Terminal Top Post Kit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00X36RILW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_QDp0Cb43K2W1C

The batteries are not secure in all directions. They should be.

There's nothing protecting the battery terminals.

In your 2nd picture, what's going on with that stray wire? Is that a random RCA?

Tons of exposed strands at power connection points at amps. Makes no sense. That place has heat shrink with shop logo printed on it. Use it.

Wire nuts. No.

Your batteries are wired incorrectly. Positive should be connected to battery 1 then connected in parallel to battery 2. The positive jumper should be red. Not sure why they used black. The ground should be connected to battery 2 then paralleled to battery 1. Like so. Some new terminals like these would be cheap and clean up your wiring.

Cable management isn't the greatest.

Try getting a battery terminal brush and scrub the daylights out of the bolts and posts and everything, then reassemble. Get everything really tight. See if that helps

Something like this guy right here

Battery Switch, 6V 12V 24V 48V 60V Battery Disconnect Master Cutoff Switch for Marine Boat RV ATV UTV Vehicles, Waterproof Heavy Duty Battery Isolator Switch, 275/1250 Amps, On Off Position https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HT19T5V/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_iiMlDbNXDRHQB

There are switches rated for all sorts of current and voltages. Are you sure you know what you are talking about?

That is not why we have solenoids.

I'm not quite sure. I have thought about cutting the corroded terminal and attaching a new terminal but it looks like I am cutting right where the two cables combine and would not have enough wire for the terminal. I could probably try it though because I guess I have no other options with the cables current state. It looks like it may have been cut before by the previous owner(s).

If I did cut the cables and separated them I have thought about trying something like this but I think it requires crimping.

The red post? https://www.amazon.com/Fastronix-Stainless-Single-Ground-Junction/dp/B01LLZF7DW

This is the correct answer, OP. Get one of these.

https://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-BAF-B1-Terminal-Cleaning-Brush/dp/B0060YHP62/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1502441119&sr=8-2&keywords=battery+terminal+brush+cleaner

man... this really sounds like a battery issue.

before you lose your hair and junk your jeep, go to a boat shop and look for some Zinc No Corrosion battery lugs and some crimp on ring ends. Get some dielectric grease or Noalox to fill those ring ends too. Cut the stock lead shit off. Clean your battery terminals WELL with a wire brush or a battery terminal cleaner. fill a ring with DG or Noalox, and crimp. assemble. From the same boat store, they ought to have some battery terminal protector spray too - it's red sticky, and oily too. that'll keep the water from corroding your terminals.

Parts:
https://www.amazon.com/NOCO-TZKIT2-Lead-Free-Battery-Terminal/dp/B00DNU3MNG or
https://www.amazon.com/Military-Spec-Battery-Terminal-Post/dp/B00X36RILW/

https://www.amazon.com/Ideal-30-030-Anti-Oxidant-Compound-Squeeze/dp/B000LDE7V4

https://www.amazon.com/CRC-Marine-Battery-Terminal-Protector/dp/B0000AZ9J4

I'm not an electrictian, so please make sure you design your system safely. Below is how I chose to do it, but it's by no means the only way and each vehicle and system has different requirements.

The way I ran it was through a hole in the firewall to my house battery box (which is behind my drivers seat). The cable runs from the van battery with a larger terminal connector immediately to an 80amp circuit breaker next to the battery to protect against any shorting, then through the firewall, under the carpet next to the drivers door, under the driver's seat, into my battery cabinet where I connected it to a Stinger 80amp isolator, then from the stinger to the battery system. I'm running 2 6V lead acid golf cart batteries.

My old man did a similar run to charge his Lithiums while driving, but he has 2 100ah battle born LiFePO4 batteries and his 2018 promaster can handle charging them. I don't know which alternator he is running though so again your mileage may very based on what the batteries can suck down, guy have burnt up alternators before trying to charge deeply depleted lithium batteries without a B2B charger.